England closer to convincing
St Lucia - In with 10 overs to spare at the Beausejour Stadium, England progressed to the World Cup鈥檚 second round for the first time in three tournaments
To a degree, they also managed to draw a line under last weekend鈥檚 late-night drinking spree, which saw five players fined and Andrew Flintoff lose the vice-captaincy.
England have still only beaten three Test-playing nations in the World Cup since 1992 - Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe in 1999 and Pakistan in 2003 - and have yet to provide irrefutable evidence they can improve on that record.
But they have at least taken a step in the right direction.
Kenya were restricted to a total well below par on the best pitch we have seen at this ground in the group stages, leaving England鈥檚 batsman a simple task, which they completed with only two real hiccups.
Captain Michael Vaughan will be annoyed to have missed a chance to end the endless whispers over his fitness and Ian Bell was unable to stay the course.
But Ed Joyce, in scoring his second successive half-century, showed more aggression early in his innings and was able to take a back seat as Kevin Pietersen took on the spinners later in the innings.
The run out of Kenya number eight Lameck Onyango with three balls to spare allowed England鈥檚 bowlers the reassurance that they are at least able to bowl a lesser side out, as they failed to do against Canada last Sunday.
Sajid Mahmood鈥檚 recall in place of Liam Plunkett appeared justified as he demonstrated the control that has been missing of late, and mastery of the slower ball.
James Anderson may not be as brisk as he once was but he was the pick of the attack, finding shape and movement off the seam to take 2-17 in his first six overs.
But all eyes were on Flintoff, including those of the England fans who staged a chorus of 鈥淪wing Low, Sweet Pedalo鈥 in tribute when he moved to field in front of the party stand.
Supervised off the field by his agent, 1992 World Cup finalist Neil Fairbrother, and on a new lime-and-soda regimen, Flintoff has been bowling with a new intensity at teammates in the nets this week.
He joined the attack in the sixth over with a look of grim purpose and was instantly blistering in pace but took a while to find his rhythm.
It was not until the end of the innings, when he dismissed for 76 with a brilliant yorker, that he began to look his old self.
Apart from Tikolo, who at 35 could have played his final World Cup innings, no Kenya batsman could worry the England attack, most perishing when they began to go for shots.
England should have captured Tikolo on 52, and sealed Kenya鈥檚 fate earlier, but Joyce put down a simple chance at mid-on, highlighting an energetic but error-prone fielding display.
With minnows Ireland and, in all probability, Bangladesh also progressing to the Super 8 round, the stakes have been raised from coach Duncan Fletcher鈥檚 original projection.
England now need to beat three of the four major nations they face over the next four weeks to be sure of a semi-final spot.
None of those sides will be quaking yet and celebrations in the England camp are likely to be muted but they are at least back on course after a difficult week.
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You can only beat what's put in front of you and England did that well today. Some solid performances particularly from Anderson and Joyce (except the drop).
I am concerned at the pace of all our bowlers however. I saw Anderson, Saj, Freddie and Plunkett all hip 90 MPH in the winter but Anderson's bowling in the 70's and Freddie and Saj rarely got over 85 mph. At medium pace, none of these bowlers will be so effective against top class opponents.
Bell is a worry too. His strike rate at 70% is only 4.2 runs an over. I wish our bowlers could achieve that! He doesn't have the strengh or the shots to score at a rate needed to take England to good totals and he gets out when trying to up the pace.
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"James Anderson may not be as brisk as he once was.."
'Once' sadly being only a month or two ago. I guess we can have no complaints when he's taking wickets but it is a bit strange seeing him a good 5 or 6mph on bowlers whose pace he was matching only a short time ago.
Hopefully it's not his back that's troubling him.
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Paul, Alex D and Thinesh, thanks for point out the error. You're correct of course and I've updated the article.
William and Andy Sea, remember the pitches are slower in the Caribbean and pace will be taken off any delivery that pitches. You can only compare bowlers in similar conditions.
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So:
Assuming (I am writing this before the Bangladesh/Bermuda match has started) that the final match sends Bangladesh through to the S8, and India home, the sides in the S8 (with England) are going to be:
Australia, Bangladesh, Ireland, South Africa, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, West Indies.
Having lost their group game to New Zealand, England are going to have to win at least four, better yet five, of their games against the others to go through.
Unfortunately, England have already lost to one of the sides (New Zealand) which they might (on pre-cup form) have had a fighting chance of beating in a S8 game, and the Australians have recovered from ther maulings of the CBS and New Zealand tour, with Symonds returned, and Gilchrist and Hayden, having evidently been refreshed by their rests. Even Bangladesh are beating teams such as Australia and India now, on 'good days', and Ireland were missing at least one of their decent batsmen the last time that they played a one day match against England, since his county refused to let him play. The Irish have also demonstrated themselves able to cause an upset.
England Batting:
When it comes to batting, given the apparent fragility of the English top order (Vaughan and Bell seem to be under too much pressure to do justice to their abilities) and the way that some of the 'lower order' (E.G. Nixon) show more sense than the middle order (E.G. Flintoff)
England are unlikely to win many matches by run scoring unless Pietersen goes berserk in every match, whilst Joyce, Collingwood, and maybe Bopara support him. That puts a lot of pressure on the other side of the coin, if England are going to win matches, meaning the fielders, bowlers, and Vaughan's captaincy in the opposition innings.
Fielders:
From what I hear, Collingwood is usually a brilliant fielder, and some of the others can get by in the slips. Unfortunately, Pietersen seems to regularly drop 'important' catches, Nixon's chuntering can be presumed to be less effective against teams that do not have English as a first language, and Monty Panesar, despite 10/10 marks for effort, is still apparenty failing to please some of his critics. They will have to maintain the high standards that they reportedly achieved in the field against Kenya, rather than just 'aim to get by'.
Bowlers:
Better news here. Flintoff, Panesar, both excellent bowlers. Anderson useful against lesser sides. Some of the 'all rounders' very handy for filling in. Some questions still over Mahmood and/or Plunkett, owing to lack of matc experience. Mahmood seems to *really* want the wins, and unlike Plunkett was not involved in *that* paticular night of clubbing and pedalo antics which resulted in Flintoff's loss of the vice-captaincy and 1 match suspension. Not sure about how good Lewis is.
Captaincy:
Unfortunately, this seems to have gone into total meltdown. Not only did Vaughan fail to 'strangle' New Zealand in England's first group-match with the innovative captaincy which saw England through to the CBS finals, but it is clear that he has had at least some trouble maintaining discipline. (Possibly the former vice-captain didn't help matters there.) England were at their lowest ebb against Canada, the captain failing to find the means to finish them off. Despite the bowling attack 'depleted' by the absence of the pedalo-ist, England, a test nation, ought to have been able to get Canada all out. Fleming, captaining New Zealand, managed it. Tikolo, captaining Kenya, managed it. How did Vaughan, managing England fail to do it?
If the England/Canada result (even though England did manage the win) was just 'one of those bad days' for Michael Vaughan, then he had better hope that it is the only one that he has in this competition, if England are to get anywhere close to the semi-finals. Because there are seven other sides in the super-eights, and all of them are in contention for the semi-finals; even the so called 'minnows' of Ireland (who ran South Africa very close in their warm up match, let's not forget) and Bangladesh, have managed to defeat two of the major sub-continental teams between them. Right now, England are looking the only minnows in the S8 group. Unless they lose the attitude that this is some sort of holiday, and focus solely on playing to their very best, England can expec to return home from the S8 stage with maybe a couple of rain-affected draws under their belts, and a lot of the 'backroom staff'/players in danger of finding themselves back on the county circuit.
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I despair of England's selection policy I really do. During the one day series in Australia, England finally began to click and become a winning team when 2 things happened.
1) Michael Vaughan got injured again and couldn't play.
2) Mal Loy was drafted in to try and get the team off on a rapid rate of run building.....
Fast forward to the World Cup - needless to say, crocked Vaughan is back and Loy didn't even make the squad - and inevitably the run rate sags, Vaughan continues to go cheaply and mediocre scores of 220 is about the best we can hope for. Loy really should have been picked as someone who can accelerate the score and attack the bowlers - but no, let's have Andrew Strauss, perennial ODI failure as cover instead.
You get the impression that no matter badly Vaughan bats or how unfit he is - he plays. Somehow, you just cannot see the Aussies making such flawed and sentimental selection decisions, can you?...
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Our bowling attack isn't the fastest, but even with the current personnel we're a good enough fielding side to progress to the semi-finals.
With Collingwood and Pieterson our only batsmen of any real talent in the ODI arena however, it's unlikely we'll go beyond the 8s.
Such a shame Trescothick is unable to play in this World Cup - he could have been the difference between an average side and a good one.
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To get a sensible estimate of England's chances of reaching the semis you just need to know that Ireland will be targeting their game against England as their best chance of a surprise victory in the S8s.
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Thanks Mr Gough for your additional comments on blog3. However, the speed gun measure the speed of the ball on release, not an average over the lengh of the pitch, so the slow paced wickets shouldn't affect the bowlers recorded speeds.
With all Englands bowlers off the pace I suggest it may be a tactic to look for accuracy over speed on unresponsive wickets. My concern is that this tactic won't help us rip through top sides. There's no doubt that a late Jimmy Anserson away swinger at 88mph is much more effective than one at 78 mph.
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Angus and Aggers were also saying last night that England must win 5 out of 6 now, but I that's not necessarily so. Since half of the Super 8 teams go through to the semis, a team with a better than 50-50 record should go through. So if England beat all the other 2nd-placed teams (South Africa, Ireland and - probably - Bangladesh) and one out of three of the 1st placed teams (say, West Indies), they are likely to qualify. Not impossible and, if they can raise their 1-day game like they did in Oz, they can make it happen. They don't want to get SA on a ground like St Kitts, though ... we won't win a slog-fest.
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Dissapointed...come home lets cheer our atheletes at the world marathon.
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I like the world, we should be good enough to win it as it is well integrated into our format of league cricket. But it is sad to see the England team always under-achieving (especially in this competition,). I dont know the reason for this, does anybody, it's a bit of a mystery to me
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come on lets stop getting on englands back lets get behind them.
joyce has found his touch with the bat.
vaughn brings the tema together
bell was the most consident one day player on aussi tour. so he will find form soon
petierson has only dropped a catch in one game and batting well
The bowling attack always good when freddy and anderson on form
also nixon passion makes the games fun
BUT MAYBE DROP MONTY AND BRING BACK KING OF SPAIN
LOWER RUN RATE WITH THE BALL.. AND SCORE MORE TOO!!!!!!!!
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well at least we got to stage 2. but england will not (can not) hit over 260, or take 10 wickets against any of the opposition, so we will not get to the semis. unfortunatly.
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Dep Dep DEEEH. England were lucky - I hope they get beat so me Disey and Jonny D can get the silver back on the road. DEP
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Being from N.I. I want Ireland to win. England are as bad as my haircut and maybe worse than DEDE's. They need Trigger and Chatterton if they are to win. P.S. I stink of BO!!
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A good performance again today. Maybe chasing runs is when we're strongest? Difficult to tell because Kenya aren't great.
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Vaughan, bell and joyce are all players capable of scoring hundreads and being the innings anchor however all three of them cant be the anchor, this is where we will really miss trescothick against the bigger teams, someone who can attack and play big shots without looking uncomfortable in doing so. where as australia top order everytime they play a big shot it seems to work unlike us we seem to get out. Maybe we should try freddie at the top because hes useless against spin when hes starting his innings.
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I would take the speed gun readings with a pinch of salt, these devices aren't particularly consistent, particulary when trying to compare between different games and grounds. They are trying to pick out a small object from a long way away with a variety of release points and trejectories. Andy Sea is right in that they measure the relase speed rather than over the whole delivery, so the pitch condition are irrelevant.
Getting back to cricket... I think England's batsmen lack inventiveness to turn each delivery into a scoring shot and finding gaps (which may include over-the-top). Watching Aus v SA you could see how each team really looked to improvise against strong bowlers.
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Taking that point about Freddie I think he's lost a bit of his intimidation. A couple of years ago if he'd have walked out against Australia opening they would have been pretty worried but I think that, at this moment in time, they'll just see another English batsmen. Piertersen is the real big fish but, if you move him to open and he gets out, virtually the whole innings collaspes.
I don't think they were far off with Jones and Treschothick but......that doesn't look like it's coming back.
Doesn't Read open for Nottinghamshire?
What about Mal Loye?
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A few weeks ago many fans on this MB were looking at the Kenya match and quaking. Many fans suggested that England would not make the supereights. Last time out Kenya despached Sri Lanka, a stronger Zimbabwe than the 2007 version and Bangladesh and, in this competition, Kenya had clinically flattened the same Canadians who gave us an uncomfortably good game. At least we have avoided that humilliation - India and Pakistan have not.
The supereights are going to be very interesting. There are some easy points (we hope) available. And, at the same time, it's likely that with many of the surviving big sides similar in strength, they could easily take points off each other. It's hard to see beyond Australia, South Africa and Sri Lanka as the top 3 (although Sri Lanka need to be tested against stronger opposition). After that, all bets are off: it's going to be an almighty dog fight between New Zealand, West Indies and England for the fourth spot. England look the weakest of the three and that may just possibly even work to our advantage.
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Collingwood must be at his most determined with bat and ball and in the field for England to have a chance.
O'Rourke
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we miss Trescothick so much vaughan and bell dont know how to get one day hundreds and thats wat u need 2 win matches.
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Graeme Duckworth, if you must assume that all the top teams will beat Ireland and Bangladesh and factor in that four teams start the Super 8 with two points from their group matches, that's where the equations have come from.
England could conceivably get through with three Super 8 wins, but only if one of the minnows upsets one of the group winners.
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England must win at least 4 out of their remaing 6 matches to reach the semi-finals having lost the virtual opener against the Kiwis. They have to target the Windies and the Sri Lankans besides Ireland and Bangladesh . The bowling with all its limitations can obviously only do so much - the batting must therefore come good. Maybe Andrew Strauss should replace Ian Bell and return to his original No 3 position where he did so well for England on debut. Vaughan needs to work on his one day batting style and get it right . Perhaps Petersen could move down to No 6 with Collie at No 4 and Freddie Flintoff at No 5 鈥 this combination worked so well for England in 2004 in the ICC Trophy. They lack a genuine No 7 (Ian Blackwell would have been perfect at this position and he would have bowled a useful 10 over spell as well !) Not being a 300 plus side like SA or Australia or NZ and lacking a potent bowling attack they have to play to their strengths and get the little things rightif they are to win.
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Against stronger teams, England can't set a large enough target to be competitive and can easily be chased down when batting first.
Additionally, they can't bowl a team out or even restrict them, so they invariably will have a massive target to chase when batting second.
Of course, we needed Trescothic and nobody has been able to fill his place.
I thought the introduction of Mal Loye was a step in the right direction, but then he was omitted.
We really don't take advantage of the Power Plays. Somebody should be smacking it around during these period - that's what everybody else is doing.
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We are going to struggle to get through, of that there is no question, especially given our below par performances so far.
HOWEVER, we are more than capable of taking down Sri Lanka, New Zealand, WI out of the top teams. On the right wicket and bowling first, we could certainly beat Aus althought this is a bit of a longshot. Can't quite see us beating SA at the moment. This means it certainly isn't doom and gloom for us just yet!
Our main problem as I see it is batting first is a MAJOR problem for us. Vaughan plays with far too straight a bat and is too easy to set a field too so is unlikely to get the run rate going. Joyce is decent but inconsistent, and hardly blazes the run rate. Bell is going to be pure class in a year or two, but at the moment gets out cheap before making big scores, and his run rate is too low.
This leaves poor old Pieterson (when batting first), in the unenviable position of often having to consolidate by keeping the run rate ticking over, trying to set himself up for a blazing few shots late on. But it only takes one shot and if he gets out after having consolidated (like against NZ), then with Flintoff misfiring, we really don't have any capability to score much over 280 first up, unless EVERYTHING goes right on the day. Other teams can go 3 down early and still score over 300!
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Pete G (26)
Sri Lanka, I would like to point out, topped their group, scoring 6 points, and handily defeating even India, with their much vaunted superstar batting line up. (People were saying on these boards, before the competition started, that India batted down to 9 or 10, and would easily make the semis- would probably win it even.) I would love to see England beat Sri Lanka, but England's form against them on the last Sri Lanka tour of England wasn't too good in the one days series, I seem to recall, although that may have happened under Strauss or Flintoff 'standing-in' Captain. On the other hand, if everything clicks, I believe that SA just 'might' be there for taking two points from, since their recent history in World Cups seems to suggest that they perform badly when the pressure is on. (Remember that game against Australia when England hosted the World Cup, and that owing to a D/L miscalculation, they didn't even make the super sixes, last time round, back on their home turf. That said, those disasters might be just the inspiration that they need to make them *really* perform this time...)
Unfortunately, whilst England might be capable of beating New Zealand, they already lost to them in the group stages, so can not face them again until the semi-final stage, at the earliest, by which time carrying points through will no longer be of concern.
And mindset seems to be a much a problem for England players, in my opinion, as the technical deficiencies of various batting/bowling/fielding methods. All that I can hope is that the *tentative* promise showed in the Kenya game means that they have well and truly got out of the frame of minds that led to the infamous night club photographs and pedalo incident.
To V Kumar (24)
It might be interesting to see Strauss bat instead of Bell in one of the 'minnow' matches against Bangladesh (if they're having an off day) or Ireland (ditto), simply to put Bell under more pressure to perform- but let's not forget that Umpire Koetzen is on the loose here, out in the Carribean, and that aforementioned umpire was as much responsible as the Australian bowlers for destroying Strauss during the recent 5-0 ashes tests whitewash. Strauss was repeatedly on the wrong end of some decisions where 'element of the doubt' seemed to fail to come into Umpire Koetzen's mind, and I have serious doubts if it would be any good for England playing Strauss in a match where Koetzen is umpiring.
And I think that 6 would be too late for Pietersen to come in, unless the tp order completely folded, since by that point there would be too little time for him to make much of an impact. In the game against Kenya he demonstrated that batting at 4, he was able to work the ball around, instead of trying to berserkly hit every ball to the boundary.
C. Evans.
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Blooming hell guys how about a bit of posititivty, we have qualified and improved in every game, I would rather be in our position that Pakistan or India, how about we get behind the boys for a bit, give them some support for the rest of the tournament, no point going on about who is not in the squad as it is not going to change, the squad is the squad the team vaughan picks is the team and so be it, very professional job against a tricky banana skin in Kenya and now lets move on, beat the Irish and thats the momention that the teams needs to be a success..........
COME ON ENGLAND, SOME OF US BACK HOME ARE BACKING YOU..................
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Hi
I am an indian.Since our team is out i 'll be rooting for england and ireland surely.Ideally i would love to watch south africa versus england final in barbados........
Cheers
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Joyce and Bell are maybe too alike to bat together high up the order in a One Day match - Joyce now the form guy so he stays at 1 - move Bell to 5 or 6 and Collingwood the really in-form guy who looks both solid but can attack to 3 (for One Day not Tests); Pieterson seems fine with 4 so keep him there. Then Bell can bat where he has been most successful i.e. down the order and can be the foil if Joyce is out by that stage. If they are both together maybe England are having a problem and just need some stabilising - still have Flintoff, Bopara and Nixon to come.
Yes we need a Loye - but the problem is that you take an Australian equivalent he can also bat conventionally to suit the cirsumstances -not sure such a batsman other than Pieterson exists in England (Ramprakash??)
As for Vaughan - he has got to be too good a player not to make a good score sometime soon (please)!?
So in short - swop Bell and Colly - & why didn't they call Ramps up instead of Loye to have a look at?
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Vaughn must perform NOW! ...or must be dropped, its as simple as that. and freddy ,ITS TIME!
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Australia and NZ must be most favored as they won the first virtual games, yet have a crack at both Bangla and Ireland, who on paper are the two weak teams in this Super 8 ( Calm down lads, !).
SL look powerful but Murali can only bowl 10 overs, thank goodness.(Unless you are an SL fan).
SA look weak in the bowling department.
Ntini and Pollock got whacked by Oz.
WI have home ice ( sorry, pitch!) advantage but also their bowling looks mediocre.
NZ are the dark horses but they have Steve ('mastermind') Fleming.
So, where does that leave England? In tough sure.
Pietersen is strong but its a team sport. Flintoff needs to step his game up. Again, the seam bowling looks weak. Panesar has yet to find a helpful wicket, but could yet have a say.
England can make it to the Semis but they need to up the run scoring, especially over the poorer teams. They need to be ruthless in crushing the remaining 'minnows'.
General note on the format of CWC 2007.
Round One worked out well. ICC keep this format.
Super 8: Toooooo Long, even b4 its played.
At least play 2 games each day. I love cricket and can watch ODI for ever, but 24 days is too long for the ROW to sustain interest. I guess
the long timescale is a plus for vacationers.
Other than that gripe, the format is way superior to CWC 2003.
I still wonder about 16 teams. It might work with 12 or 14 teams and smaller group sizes.
Thanks for the blog, 成人论坛.
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Let us face facts. England lost one match this World Cup - against New Zealand, a side that is fairly evenly matched to England, in a game in which the toss played a big factor. Most captains in this world cup are choosing to bowl first. Since then we have beaten Canada and Kenya - who are not great, but still needed beating, and England are in the second round - unlike Pakistan and India. We started slowly in the Commonwealth Bank series and got better. While we are not favourites, England can definitely win this World Cup. Show some faith and pride. Oh, and to those commenting on the pace of the bowlers, they are slower than they were in Australia because they are playing on slower pitches.
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This late night drinking spree is unbelievable. Can't they do without alcohol at all? At this rate we can forget England, it will be an Australia v Sri Lanka final.
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