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Hoepfully this will be a short game with the Kiwis coming out on top. For a side completely written off they have been very competitive and deserve to get something worth while out of this test series. The top order is crucial and if they can find runs i think the English middle order will be found wanting by an honest Kiwi attack.

Lets not forget that the Kiwis are a far better one day side than you English. Looking forward to a Kiwi whitewash in those!!!

Please dont say it will be a short test match :(

Me and 15 freinds are coming down from Norfolk on Sunday and hope for a really good day, its taken me 4 months to organise this!!

Lets hope for excellent batting conditions and a little drizzle on Thursday!!

The Kiwis have earned respect.

There main disadvantage is the England batting is seriously stronger.

My prediction of an England loss before the last match did not happen but wonderful to see Strauss play so well.

This only disguised the the lack of sting (steve) in the England attack.

When I hear Vaughan saying swing will beat the Ozzies I cringe.

A balanced attack is always best.

Strauss for captain?

Tottenhaman

Looks finally poised. What i would love to see is England really build on the battling and perhaps slightly fortuitous win at OT.
I think that Broad has looked good, he puts the ball in the right areas and should be nurtured at this level. There might be a good arguement for allowing him to return to club cricket after the NZ tour to spare him from being hammered about by SA later in the summer but that bridge is for then not now.

Surely when Freddie comes back and is FULLY fit, None of this jabs and just about play. I mean 100% had several weeks of county cricket under his belt and doesnt even have a niggle. Surely then he must come in for Collingwood. I Collingwoods form with the bat is poor and he is too injured to bowl. Give the lad some time off to fix his shoulder, it makes no sense playing a lad who is a bit beaten about when they arent able to contribute what we know they can. Give him a rest!

Tottenham, i think the thing you have overlooked is that there is nothing England can do to beat the Auzzies when they come here next year. England are not on the same level, no team in world cricket is able to compete with Australia and with the frailties that even an honest but not spectacular NZ bowling attack can expose in our KP, Ambrose, Bell and Collingwood the Ponting and go will be licking there lips with delight and the carnage they will undoubtedly dish out to our middle order 2x per test match. No one will want to open the bowling, they will just want to come on once MV, Strauss and Cook are out

To be honest, morst serious cricket fans i know were expecting this to be relatively close- I was expecting England to win 2-0 at the start, though with the games being close.

Australia aren't the force people believe them to be, but I feel that other teams seem to be regressing faster than Australia, and not enough form players are being brought into teams, or players who have as much quality. Could this be down to the rise of the one day formats? England at present don't have a chance against the Aussies, but they have time to find the right team, if the eperiment. What's the point of having A tours if you can't play your way into the first team?!

That doesn't matter yet, however, as we still have much more cricket which is just as important ahead of us.

Swing can't defeat Australia, but it can certainly ply a major part, hence the importance of a balanced bowling attack. It's no good having tight bowlers if someone else gives away shed-loads so that the batsmen don't need to take risks at the other end, so bye bye Jimmy Anderson, welcome back Matthew Hoggard (I hope for the next series). Anderson just isn't accurate enough to play in the Ashes, or against S.A.

My team for the next series:

Strauss
Cook
Bell
KP
Colly (C)- if he's fit
Ambrose (WK)
Flintoff
Broad
Sidey
Hoggard
Panesar

Tremlett, Carberry and Rashid as back-ups, possibly Rashid in for Broad on a turning wicket, or Carberry in if a 4 man attack is wanted.

As long as all of the above are fully fit, of course.

India did england over last year at Trent Bridge

England need to be careful

I totally agree that the england side does need a bit of a tweak for south africa, i for one have been very impressed with broad's concistency as well as what he brings in his batting, but he still lacks the intensity and hostilaty of the past few sides, maybe if he bowled with a few more top quality bowlers around him it would make a difference. everybody is taking about freddie at the moment and we know the massive plaus he would be to england when he comes back, but i have been keeping one eye on simon jones down at worcester and the guys still got it, pace, agression, hostility and whats more anytime solanki throws him the ball he looks like hes gonna get a hat full, fingers crossed if he can stay fit then we'll see him back in the side because adding him and flintoff to any attack would make them quite a force. I would look to get a keeper in who is a geuine batsman like possibly prior again, amrose looks quite average with the bat for me and a county average of 25 doesnt exactly scream batsman at you, or dare i say it give geraint jones another go. his for for kent has been very good, by doing this you allow flintoff to ease his way back in at no.7 so my team for south africa is as follows:
cook
strauss
vaughan (c)
pietersen
bell
prior/jones (w.k.)
flintoff
broad
sidebottom
simon jones
panesar

bring on the aussies!

To beat the Aussies is not impossible but we do need to play fit people and ones preferably in the team because they are in form and not living on past exploits.

However, to make changes to the present team you have to find people who are consistently performing very very well at county level.

I am not seeing any batsmen who fit that bill the bowling department does however see some competition developing for places .

We have to start picking teams that allow people to have a chance once in i.e. not just one or 2 games but a whole series as a minimum.I would prefer the whole summer or the whole winter.

Australia are not known for chopping and changing bar for injury once decisions have been made on ability, and it is this above all other reasons gives them a consistency of performance that we at present can only dream of.

If we are to have any chance against SA or the aussies we need to use 5 bowlers. We need to forget about hoggy and look elsewhere. we only need 1 swing bowler and that should be Sidebottom. If flintoff is fit he must play and also monty. The other two spots most come from Broad, Tremlett, onions as they offer something different. Tremlett bowled well last summer so is worht another go. Harmy if is back to top form could be in again but that would be a risk and if simon jones is back and fit he could also get himself back in the setup. Batting wise 1 of bell and colly would have to go and we still aren't closer 2 sorting out our keeper.
For SA i would pick,
Cook
Strauss
Vaughan c
KP
Bell
Ambrose
Flintoff if fit
Broad
Tremlett
Sidebottom
Monty

Arnie99 are you mental!!!

A batting line up of

Cook
Strauss
Bell
KP
Colly
Ambrose
Flintoff
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard
Panesar

is possibly the worst I have ever seen suggested. On current form especially, teams would be thinking get them 2 or 3 down and we can skittle them!!

I think with our current frailties with the bat, flintoff would need to play as part of a 4 prong bowling attack with colly picking up the slack, I would keep Vaughan in the line up too.

I'm also not convinced by Rashid at the moment, as much as I rate him as a Yorkshireman myself i feel it is far too early for him to bowl at test level, his figures this year have been poor, the yorkshireman i'd be looking at as a possibility would be bresnan who is playing currently like a genuine all rounder.

i must say that swing assisting trousers seems a little out of the spirit of the game, whats wrong with good old fashioned spit and leather rubbing on cotton?

People, people....let's have some realism.

Yes, the middle order is a worry but not a crisis yet - KP, Bell and Colly are all very good (KP - great?) players and surely are due an upturn in form soon....it happens to the best. And don't forget Colly made a double hundred in Adelaide.

We stand a chance next year for three simple reasons:

1. Australia are not as good as they were then.

2. We have a stronger team now (albeit slightly underperforming). Last time we have Mahmood (!), Giles and Harmy (grossly out of form) in our attack! Next year we could have any from Siders, Hoggard, Flintoff, Broad, Anderson, Jones, Panesar - much more promising!

3. We are at home.

Mark

what i don't see is why its Collingwood that comes under pressure, not the hopelessly unreliable Bell.

Australia can't bowl out an average West Indies team in a day and with Macgill retiring you can bet Warne will be getting more than just a card off Ricky Ponting this Xmas. Why are the knives out for Vaughan all of a sudden?? Englands most successful captain scoring plenty of runs and crucially a series win over the old enemy in 2005 he's just the guy you want opposite Ponting when the coin is in mid air.

edward9284, don't forget the hopelessly unreliable rest of them too, including Pietersen. The batting's been dire since they went to Sri Lanka, but they only have to get a single ton after a string of terrible performances and suddenly they're 'great' players again.

Over the last 12 months, only two England batsmen have an average over 40 in Tests.

Compare and contrast Australia, who had 10 batsmen averaging over 40 in the same 12 months. South Africa have 5 batsmen who averaged over 50 likewise.

The bowlers have been saving our bacon.

Aggers is spot on with his comments about the four pronged bowling attack being weak on the basis that there is only four of them. Hoping not to sound like one of the idiots that harks back to the Ashes of '05, but when S Jones was injured, he was not replaced with another bowler but with an all-rounder. Not to take anything away from Collingwood, who is good at what he does, but England need to have that certaintly of being able to bowl out a team, which it doesnt at the moment.

The last win was more to do with the Kiwis crumbling rather than a hostile, accurate, excellent bowling unit. Of course they all did exceptionally well, especially Monty, but it has already shown that it cannot be relied on. Four bowlers only works when all cylinders are firing, which is rare. 5 bowlers would give another option, and Flintoff can chip in with the bat at times as well. I'd love S Jones to return and be as dominant as he can be, as he's such a pleasure to watch.

As for the batting line up, I'm a big Strauss fan and he's clearly Vaughans second in charge. As for the rest, they need to be given the summer to have a proper chance. The same should be for Ambrose as the keeper, which he's good at and which is most important for a keeper rather than runs.

Come on England!

Paul Collingwood and Tim Ambrose are the England players under most pressure, partly from their own form and partly from the brilliant county form of their direct replacements - Ravi Bopara and Matt Prior.

Collingwood will survive because a) the selectors don't drop batsman, and b) his all-round qualities brings enough to the table. Ambrose's positions is more uncertain, few people would argue that he is a better batsman than Prior and despite good wicket-keeping, the selectors clearly want a batsman-wicketkeeper as demonstrated by the dropping of Phil Mustard from the ODI squad.

A word of warning to the England selectors, they could easily find themselves in no man's land with Stuart Broad, they clearly have the 2009 Ashes in mind as Tremlett is a better bowler in better form. Sure Broad has potential but it's only potential and there's no guarentee he'll fulfill it.

Simon Jones has battled back from a career threatening injury. He was the best bowler in the Ashes (I know we have moved on) and seems to be back in nick. Our current 4 man attack will not rattle the best teams in the world, even with Flintoff. Since switching to a four man attack we have lost to all the top sides and at this moment in time Broad does not look like he is going to take too many wickets against top class opposition. As soon as the ball goes soft and if there is no turn we can expect top quality batsmen to get big hundreds.

We are making New Zealand look better than they actually are (I take nothing away from them, I admire their fighting qualities) but if we are going to compete I think we need to take 20 wickets against top sides and for that we need the bowling attack to be

Sidey
Flintoff
Jones
Broad
Panesar

I can't see us beating South Africa unless we change tactics. This line up could be better than the Ashes due to Monty's genuine wicket taking threat, whilst the quicks have short hostile spells using swing, pace, bounce and reverse swing from the other end. With Simon Jones in the side we would be much more potent. I have been surprised just how much of a forgotten man he has become!!

'few people would argue that he (Ambrose) is a better batsman than Prior'

I agree. I think Prior is an infinitely better batsman that Ambrose. CMJ no less reckons he is technically good enough to play as a batsman on his own. Ambrose is I think marginally the better keeper though neither are test standard.

Prior is currently top of the averages with 3 hundreds and four fifties in 9 complete innings including a brilliant hundred in even time against a very good Durham attack in tough conditions.

I think Prior will come back. He is maturing as a person after the silly stuff last year. I don't think either Ambrose or Flintoff are good enough to bat at six at test level - against the best - which means that if Flintoff plays you cannot have Ambrose in the side. So Prior at six and Flintoff at seven. My feeling is that Bopara will come through and replace either Bell or Collingwood in the next 12 months. I also feel that we can get two good years out of Harmison at this level and his pace will be essential next summer. Anderson and Tremlett are not good enough against the best at this level. I am not sure they ever will be. Harmison has been the best and can be so again. The seam attack could be Flintoff, Harmison, Sidebottom, Broad with Panesar. On a bouncing, turning wicket then Bresnan or Rashid replaces Sidebottom.

Hope the weather does not get in the way of a good match...

IMHO the problem with England is that they do not look like making 400 runs in an innings OR taking 20 wickets in a match. NZ have found a formula to get our top order out and the likes of KP just don't seem to have an answer. KP, Colly and Bell are all very very good, but hopelessly out of nick and the team as a whole seem to lack the swagger we saw in '05.

The last test was won due to a batting collapse that was quite breathtaking. We took 12 wickets, they handed 8 to us on a plate....

I agree with Aggers that a 4 man attack is not the way to go, but would rather see the team remain stable than go through the terrible chopping and changing we saw in the bad old days. If the management think they are good enough then players need to be backed. We did not win in style, but we did win....

It is the attitued is wrong, not the names on the card.... go out and be positve, take the game by the scruff of the neck and try to dominate and we would see a very different side....

Look this is the team

Cooky
Straussy
Vaughany (c)
Pierterseny
Colly
Shahy
Broady
Ambrosey
Freddiey
Sidey
Panesary

Andersen is too hit and miss

Broad is a good all rounder

Imageine that

Batting down to 9!

CovKiwi and others

For the most part England supporters are not overly disparaging of the NZ team. I think the point is is that Eng feel we should be outperforming a side that has lost Bond and Fleming and Styris etc since recently.

New Zealand have played well this series and are consistently better than the sum of their parts. I do not think it unfair to believe England to be a better side on paper, they are. However in the middle, the perceived difference in class/ability/(reputation?) has not been clear.

NZ have some good attributes that make them hard to beat in particular they bat long. However they lack real class in the top order and a strike bowler. Shane Bond might have made a real difference.

REALLY some of you need to be told.

Flintoff is a very very average batsman. always has been. he relies entirely on bravado and his eye for the ball.

BY NO STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION is he a test match number 7. he does not adapt or respond well to match situations (which is how i would define a good batsman).

he is a plucky slogging fast bowler. he is not an all-rounder.

i'd love to watch this team take the fight to the Saffers.

Cook
Strauss C
Shah
KP
Bell
Bopara
Prior W
Flintoff
Broad
Sidebottom
Panesar

Aggers you make some subtle points on the 4 man/5 man attack issue. However, you miss two important ones.

First the game is psychological - if you get on top of the opposition by posting a good score their batting will be on the back foot and easier to dismiss with a 4 man attack. Conversely, if you have a weak 6, 7 and 8 the opposition will be energised by the thought that they will be well on the way to beating you with a few early wickets. In this sense their is only any point enertaining the 5 man attack idea if the keeper and two bowlers have strong batsmenship. In Englands case we have a number 7 in Flintoff who is rarely fit, a number 7/8 in Ambrose and a number 8 in Broad. As some have said Prior can bat at 6 but he's got to keep much better if he is to come back in.

Second, the capacity of a 4 man attack to get through the overs is dictated not just by fitness and the opposition but by firepower. Jones and Flintoff may be a little wobbly but in conjunction with Sidebottom and Paensar they would be able to dismiss most opposition in a relatively limited number of overs on most occasions. When doing so they make the 5th bowler almost redundant. The strategy worked for West Indies and Pakistan attacks in their pomp and worked for Australia for a long time (though they now struggle with the decent spinner component).

Posters, posters, posters, forget about Australia. There are other cricketing nations, you know, notably South Africa!

Beating South Africa would be an achievement in itself, not merely a staging post to playing the Ashes.

eseverage - so Freddie is not an all-rounder?

This will come as a surprise and a disappointment to every all-rounder in the world, since he was until recently ranked number 1 as an all-rounder. Indeed, even with injury absences he is still ranked 3 in the world behind only Vettori and Kallis.

I wish that I could ever be ranked number 1 in the world at something that I am not very good at!

arnie_99 its ironic you talk about form players needing to be picked and ones off form being dropped and yet MV who is playing his way back into form doesnt make your team and yet Collingwood who looks physically incapable of putting bat to ball at the moment gets into your team as captain. Your team selection and your criticisms are clearly harping from different song sheets!

eseverage writes regarding Flintoff:

'REALLY some of you need to be told... BY NO STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION is he a test match number 7'.

You imply that others are stupid for thinking so. That is both arrogant and patronising. The sum total of cricketing knowledge is not held in your hands.

An average of 32.5 in 60 odd tests with 5 centuries and 24 fifties. And few tests against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe to 'load' the figures. Sounds like a number 7 to me.

There is some evidence that he is not as a good a batsman as he was. And in a strong side he would be a great 8. You may be right or wrong, this is all conjecture - but there is really no need to patronise your audience in making your case. It diminishes you and your argument.

#2: It's not even a test match, my 'freind'!

Hope springs eternal, eh Covkiwi?

Here I sit, broken hearten, reduced to reading aging blogs between glances at score updates. Meanwhile, she-who-must-be-obeyed is hogging the TV. She's watching - of all things - Lagaan.

Come on, England.

Well done, England!

I wonder if Lagaan is still on?