成人论坛

How come France, Italy and Ukraine are grouped together in the Euro 2008 qualifying.
Were there no seedings? Imagine only 2 of these 3 talented teams will be at Euro 2008.

There were seedings for Euro 2008 - strange, but France were in pot 1, Italy in pot 2 and the Ukraine in pot 3. Other second seeds included Germany, Croatia & Spain, while champions Greece got a first seed place.

As an expat in Munich, I was double-gutted to go out. I just wanted the English party crowd to come here and be a part of it.

I am so sad Terry Butcher is leaving, as already writtne, he is not scared to tell it how it is but he has the background to back up what he writes. Ig normal journos write it, the footballers constantly ask "well, what does he know about football?" and the rest of the ex=pros are stuck in the Omerta of never slagging off a fellow pro. If we do not start to learn the truth, that guys like Lampard, so called best midfielder in the Permiership can't even lace Thorsten Frings boots, let alone Zidanes, then we will never do any better. Sorry Frank, you keep saying the criticsims were unfounded but every time you stepped on the park you ahd the chance to shove it back down our faces and sadly you never did. Actions speak louder than words!

By the way, Engalnd have been winners this world cup. Not the team but the FANS! On German blogs people around the nation cannot stop going on about the Party People and guess what? Its us, the English. Nobody has taken more people to this world cup, the people from every town that England visited are raving about their humour, their passion and the atmosphere they created. What a change to what we usually hear. Stand up and be counted, you fans who made the trip, you've made me proud to be English!!!

Why has this "golden generation" label been applied to this England team? At least when it was applied to Portugal a few years back (Luis Figo, Joao Pinto, Rui Costa et al), they had actually won major tournaments at youth level. I don't recall England having won a major youth tournament in the last 10 years.

Wow - praise for England fans abroad! This is a new experience - let's hope it's one that we get used to.

To James, "why has this golden generation label been applied to this England team ", I can only suppose it is based on the amount they get paid and the vast sums the WAGS spent in Baden Baden , it certainly can't be based on their ability to play team football.

I am sick and tired of the comments about the so called "Golden Generation". Let us merely recap on the achievements of the England team since 1966.

Starting with 1970 and a squad argued by many to be stronger than that in 1966. Many of the younger players in 66 were coming to their prime (Moore, Banks, Hurst, Peters). We only lost a game to the eventual winners 1-0 a team generally assessed to be the best ever and remember Jeff Astle missing a sitter in that game. Also we were 2-0 up against the Germans till Sir Alf made substitutions even more bizarre that either Sven or Jouse Peckerman this year.

1974 we fail to qualify beaten by a team who went throught to the semi finals (Poland) and who nearly beat the eventual winners in that semi.

In 1978 we failed to qualify on goal difference beaten only by Italy. Again no shame. Remember in 74 and 78 there were no playoffs only 16 teams took part.

As to the so called golden generation of players now are people forgetting that English clubs fielding virtually totally British and Irish born players won the Euopean Cup for seven years running during the late 70's and early 80's. Also that was in a time when only the champions qualified and there was no league to allow you to get away with one or two poor performances.

1982 the manager (Ron Greenwood) took a star striker who was unfit as well as his most creative player who was also unfit. So Sven was not the first to do this! Despite missing Kevin Keegan and Trevor Brooking England beat the eventual semi finalists (France including Platini, Tigana, Giresse et al) 3-0 in the first game and won all three games to qualify. We eventually failed to get past the second stage losing to the Germans on goal difference. By the way the Germans got to the final again that year.

1986 Gary Lineker top scored in the tournament (6 goals) and England get to the quarter finals losing to the eventual champions and their inspirational leader who scored one controversial and one amazing goal.

1990 Semi- finalists losing to the eventual winners on penalties.

1994 Graham Taylor (Do I not like that!) we fail to qualify on goal difference after a dodgy retaken free kick by Ronald Koeman. Not a poor team the Dutch in those days (Van Der Saar, Bergkamp, Koeman, Kluivert, Davids, Seedorf et al).

1998 we again qualify and lose on penalties in the knockout stages. Some young lad from Liverpool scores a wonder goal and a talented young player gets sent off leaving us to play against a world class team for over an hour with ten men. We go out on penalties after Sol Campbell has a disputed goal disallowed.

Don't tell me this group of overpaid, underperforming "stars" are the best since 66.

Yet again the (british) media had us all by the * , golden generation? Over Hyped, over paid, over rated. What a dissapointment for the tremendous following of fans. This team doesn't deserve this sort of support.
Same old excuse mongering time after time.......... 'it was too hot' we've had a 'long season' bla bla bla. Let's be honest, there are about two,at most three, moments during Englands world cup 'campaign' that remain in the memory, at least one of those memories was of Lennon and Joe Cole at least taking on oppenents and beating them, another one would be the much criticised Owen Hargreaves still sprinting up and down the field during extra time against the portugese, while many of the 'golden boys' had stopped moving .Where was the adventure? where was the spirit(extra time apart) ? where was the will to 'get at' the opposition .
So the Golden generation beat Paraguay 1-0 deuh! beat T+T deuh deuh! drew (just about) with the Swedes (snore) and beat costa Rica wow!
After the first match everybody could see that England weren't that much of a threat to any of the 'top' teams, no problem, but why the HYPE!

Is Madhu trying to wind up us Scots by reminding us just who we've got to face up to in our qualifying group for Euro 2008? Three out of the last eight in world - not for us the 'lucky England' syndrom of not having to play anyone half decent until the quarter finals. Yes, I know, England were there and we weren't, but that's the whole problem with seedings - once you get down in them it's like trying to climb back up a muddy slope with a fire hose on you. Still at least we will have realistic expectations, and you just never know in footie!

One last point - if England want to encourage more Scottish support then stop banging on about 1966 - it was 40 years ago, get over it....you've won as much as Scotland, Wales and N Ireland since.

Agreed. I too will miss Butcher's punditry, especially after yesterday's frank assessment of our World Cup flop. With more honest appraisal, and less tub-thumping, we might go slightly better equipped to major championships, and better able to make appropriate adjustments in future. Some chance of that though. In six months time Roo will be saying 'I wanna make up for the World Cup', Lamps'll be saying 'I think we've got one major championship in us', and we'll get more of the same.

On another matter, how people can blame Erikkson and wash their hands of the matter makes no sense to me. If it wasn't Erikkson would Gerrard have scored his penalty etc etc? Managers do make a difference, but at the end of the day Keegan, even Taylor picked most of our best players for their teams. Sad to say but the 'golden generation' just aren't World Cup winners. We might easily have got to the semi-final, and probably would if we'd had Scolari or Hiddink managing us for the last year, maybe even the final, but can you really see that lot winning it? Our only chance was really if we sort of fell to victory, the others fell apart. Of course that looks more likely this World Cup than any other, the draw's opened up on our side, but Italy and Germany have risen to the occasion. They're never going to give the World Cup away. England would have to learn to take it: bold, adventurous, fearless tactics. I don't know how that will ever happen as long as we continue to relentlessly hype our league and achievements, play so many home internationals, so few of our players ever play abroad.

Thirty-two years of hurt is enough for me for now. I am now donning sackcloth and ashes, in tribute to Butcher. This season the English League and 'Premiership' is cancelled for me. A season of reflection, non-sporting pursuits, and occasional observation of the continental leagues. Should mean I'm fresh for Euro 2008 ;-)

We just need to be realistic with our expectations. We all get carried along with the hype when if we think about it properly we know that we are being unrealistic. With the players we have a quarter final place was really the best we could hope for. They may be some of the highest paid players in the world with the biggest egos, helpfully inflated by the worst press in the world, but no more excuses. They just can't cut it on the real world stage.
In the meantime we just irritate everyone else who are more than happy to see us fail once again and gloat.
Next time round lets be realistic and maybe just maybe it will be different.

Yes, sorry,
You should have been there with all your gifted players, but my fellow countryman blew it for you.
The signs were there already four years ago in Japan. I couldn麓t believe what I saw second half against Brasil. Your guys were totally paralyzed with this lack of leadership.

Yes, sorry,
You should have been there, with all your gifted players, but my fellow countryman blew it for you.
The signs were there already four years ago in Japan. I Couldn麓t believe what I saw second half against Brasil. Your guys were totally paralyzed with this lack of leadership.

After watching last night's awesome semi-final between Germany and Italy, I think the English public and media seriously need to sit down and undertake a fundamental reassessment of their opinions/expectations for their national team.

To be blunt, England were dreadful in this tournament. Lethargic, hesitant, drab and ugly, they did just enough to scrape past four poor to mediocre teams before coming up against a wily yet average side in Portugal. They could've won it, yet did nothing in terms of attacking play until - bizarrely - after Rooney deliberately (and he did) stamped on Carvalho's goolies. And then it was too late.

There is absolutely no way on earth England would ever have won this World Cup - they're just not good enough. Germany, Italy and France would have demolished them.

Isn't it about time you all realised - as Waddle has said - that you're not as good as you think you are? 40 years and nothing. Poor showings in every tournament. Yet your press build you up into supposed "world beaters".

This "Golden Generation" tag is utter nonsense - the England team is populated by bloated egos and lazy, overpaid poseurs who are in desperate need of putting out to pasture.

If you think Enlgand have underachieved then imagine how the Spanish feel. At least there is one World Cup win in the locker and few semi-finals and quarter finals in the last 16 years. Spain pay like chapions all through every qualification and most of the group stages and then fall flat on their face at the first serious team in the knock stage. Don't be too hard on yourselves or the team, at least they play the game fairly the majority of the time and there is a genuine disappointment in the team. You could add Holland and Czech R to the list of underachievers in the last 6-8 years too. There is just something in the make up and culture of the Brazilian, German, Italian, Argentinian and very recently the French that seems to get them to the semis or finals for the majority of tournaments - its not just a skill or technique thing either.
PS Spare a thought for us Scots 5 world cups in a row and NEVER made the second round, even with the Ally Mcleoad team that was going to "win it". You guys don't know when you have it good!!!

If you think Enlgand have underachieved then imagine how the Spanish feel. At least there is one World Cup win in the locker and few semi-finals and quarter finals in the last 16 years. Spain pay like chapions all through every qualification and most of the group stages and then fall flat on their face at the first serious team in the knock stage. Don't be too hard on yourselves or the team, at least they play the game fairly the majority of the time and there is a genuine disappointment in the team. You could add Holland and Czech R to the list of underachievers in the last 6-8 years too. There is just something in the make up and culture of the Brazilian, German, Italian, Argentinian and very recently the French that seems to get them to the semis or finals for the majority of tournaments - its not just a skill or technique thing either.
PS Spare a thought for us Scots 5 world cups in a row and NEVER made the second round, even with the Ally Mcleoad team that was going to "win it". You guys don't know when you have it good!!!

I guess you all realise what it means now that England are out? It means, we will all have to continue to watch bits of a 1966 match (in black & white) on TV everytime the world cup is discussed!

Why do we keep hearing about England? Surely last night's match betrayed the huge gap between English football and the top international teams in Europe. Terry should stick to his 40 year old tv footage and live another dream or illusion. All over,it is now!

Well at least the England team players got a few bargains in the shops. I'm glad they had time to bring a few momentos home.
When they look back to World cup 2006 they can remark - yeah, thats a wee city break where I got a great bargain pair of trousers.
:o)

Last nights football was remarkable. If we can agree to call that football, then whatever England play needs a new name.

This is the best England team in at least the last 25 years. People talk about reaching 3 quarter-finals as a complete failure, as though England usually do better. Since 1966, we've only gone further in major tournaments twice, as hosts in 1996, and in 1990. You'll have a hard time convincing me the 1990 squad was better than this one- they were diabolical in the group stage, scored in the 119th minute against Belgium and were 10 minutes from going out against Cameroon.
England are not Germany or Brazil- we don't normally win tournaments or reach the final- I don't understand why people are shocked every time we get knocked out.
In the last two tournaments, we've had the talent in the squad to go further but haven't- I guess I blame Sven to a large extent but I doubt it'll be much different under McLaren.

There is nothing as predictable as how much the English will adore their team before the competition and how much they will deride them when they lose. Whatever one says about these footballers, the vast majority of us would have been proud to have been in a school team with them once, 15 years ago.

Had this England team the potential to be great? Well, my judgement is that barely one of the players played to within 80% of his potential yet they reached the last 8. The collective and consistent failure to perform is appalling and questions must be asked. But to get so far with such underperformance supports the notion that this was a group of players who could and should have been special. They may have been hyped, but I still think it might be a while before England and field such strength.

I suspect the management is largely at fault. Steve McClaren was interviewed earlier in the week. Had he thought about how he would do things. No, they had thought about nothing else since starting their preparation than winning the tournament. I suspect that they put themselves under too much pressure, that there was too much fear of failure. Watch the great teams play. Football is a game and games should be enjoyed.

I was thinking about this. You watch the 4 semi final teams and compare the players to the England squad.
You would take any of the keepers (except Bartez of course) over Robinson, would trade Henry for Crouch, would take Canavaro over Rio and possibly Figo over Beckham, though that is a stretch. Man for man the Englang team is as good if not slightly better than the other squads. So what is it? Why are we unable to perform at top tournaments. The portugese were not a lot better its true and only beat a 10 man england side on penalties, but why don't we perform? Is it national character? Is it the expectations of a rabid media? Is it the lack of an imaginative manager?
If we had Solari wiukd we have played better? I have a solution. Each team that qualifies puts all its players in a pool. The managers then pick a team one player at a time. So we get 32 balanced teams with no strings attached. You get 2 weeks to train together then we hold the world cup. It would be great.

This teams tactics were not only naive but it looked like the manager had surender before we had began.Comments here amaze me,I have followed Endland 45 years and this without doubt played the worst football.The younger players were not given a chance,when Lord Beckham was off the field look at the diference.I hope now the team will recover go forward and not held back with allowing certain players to dictate,and please goodbye Beckham his work rate is minus 60%.Best of luck England for the future and what a difference in t,v. coverage not like 成人论坛 if only these people realised.Well done too B.B.C.

it amuses me how the blame for rooney sending off has now settled squarely on shoulders of ronaldo. some blame must be attached to the swedish manager for playing englands best player in an impossible position on his own and especially knowing the way his frustration will grow as game goes on which it did. rooney himself has only himself to blame and deep down he knows that.

if crouch had started and lennon replaced beckam and the manager made the hard decision to drop lampard and keep in hardgreaves i am convinced especially having seeing a poor french team last nite that the azzuri would be facing england in final. speaking of hargreaves to hear an england player booed by own fans was shocking and the character he showed was unbelievable. pity the others didnt show same character.

One word to sum up the English attitude to English football and English footballers. Hubris.
Regardless of anybody else's behaviour, the arrogance in assuming that the England team was comprised of the best players in their positions, and that it was only a matter of time before things came good, is truly astonishing.
In a sense I'm glad England didn't go all the way (even though I'm English), because the smug arrogance, self-satisfaction, and outright assumption of English superiority would have been intolerable.

Well done everyone. France deserved to be in the final, so do the Italians. But one worthy note: there have never been such a bad bunch of supporters than the English people. They could never accept the fact that the're not a good team, they never played footballs the way other people played - they're conservatives.

They blamed everyone else except their players. There's absolutely nothing wrong with Ronaldo (Portugese). And people well accepted that Rooney was on the wrong side, and the red card was somehow a right decision by the ref. However, they could never accept that, yet Ronaldo became the scape goat.

Look. England will never win any major tournament with all those rubbish talks and praises.