成人论坛

16 and 17 year olds - should they get the vote

My answer to this question is - "Why Not?" I am a 16 year old male and I honestly believe that at the age of 16 people do understand voting and CAN know who they want to implement descisions for the country. I am not saying that all 16 year olds know this but lets face it - do all 18 year olds, 20 year olds, 30 year olds, 50 year olds? My answer to this is NO. By the age of 16, generally speaking, people have made up their mind on voting behaviour and have as much knowledge on the subject as any other "adult". After completing my standard grade in modern studies, watching the news etc. I firmly believe that I have as much knowledge on the subject as anyone else, if not, more! At 16, I am old enough to get married! WHY NOT VOTE? I know much more about VOTING than I do about MARRIAGE! At 16, I am legally bound to many things yet I cannot vote on the issues that concern me as much as anyone else. Maturity to vote is not dependant on age it is dependant on the individual and that, in my opinion is something that will not change.

Andrew Currie
East Kilbride, Scotland

I was surfing on the internet this evening and I saw the article on votes for 16 and 17 year olds. I was 16 in December and I feel that 16 and 17 year olds should be treated with more responsibilities, such as the vote. I agree with the comment on closing the barrier between "children" and adults. Most of us have an opinion on who we would vote for if we just had the chance. I personally have been brought up in a pro-Labour household and I agree with Labours issues but I think teens should have an imput to their country. I would also like to enquire about the age limit for driving. This may JUST be a rumour, but......is it being put up to 18 next January? If so, I am one of the lucky ones in my year at school who will get a chance to drive but some of my friends won't have their 17th birthday until 2002, which will be too late!!

Deborah Barkham
Leeds

I am 17 and I think that allowing 16 & 17 year olds to vote would help adults take more notice of this age group and take our聽views seriously. It is about time the age is lowered as older teenagers are a lot more mature now than 30 years ago.聽 There are also many political issues at the moment regarding this age group and something should be done to聽find out聽our opinions on them.

Karen Shuker

If you lower the voting age to 16/17, when will this lowering of age stop because once you have lowered it to 16/17, then teenagers who are 14 or above, who are commonly deciding on their sexual behaviour will feel like they have the right to vote too.聽It would be better to keep the voting age at 18 because at 18 you have new privileges like drinking and going to university. Many 16/17 year olds are not really bothered about who is arguing in the House of Commons and would be influenced highly by their parents so they would end up voting for the party they're parents vote for.聽 Lets face it how many 16/17 year olds are going to take the time to go and vote when they have other important things on their minds especially during May, with A-Levels and other such examinations going on?聽聽聽 聽

Miss Victoria Biggs聽

Sorry have to disagree with the MP who wants to lower the age for voting. The answer has to be No. Youngsters are still in the developing age, most still at school and are still very easily influenced by the elders who are with the constantly!! Personally, the age of voting should be raised to 21.

Karen Turner

Vernon Coaker acknowledges that it's not likely to be very popular ,but he's pleased to start the debate. Next month the new UK Youth Parliament holds its first session at Westminster...its junior would-be MPs will certainly take up the cause.

Vernon Coaker 's debate attracted support from other MPs, Corby's Phil Hope and the Liberal Democrat's Lembit Opik. Most Westminster MPs though will be cautious and will want to test public opinion before lowering the voting age to 16.

John Hess
Political Correspondant, East Midlands Today

Regarding 16 - 17 years old getting the vote. Well I am far from happy with this, I understand that Vernon Coaker MP has thought up this little gem. I wonder why at this time he has come up with this one; it would be cynical of me to think that it could be any thing to do with the coming elections so I will keep this thought to myself. The thought that children, because that what they are, could even be considered to be generally suitable to have the vote in any political election totally defies believe. In a previous posting the comment was that if the 16-17 olds were given the vote the adults would take more notice of them. From my experience this age group requires no further notice taking of them they have all they need, nice though that in this posting the person did not consider them selves to be an adult, which is the case.

As for the UK Youth Parliament nothing to do with Game for a Laugh is it?

John Foster
Arnold

I would like to argue to that I am just a capable to vote as any other citizen and the fact that many young people do not use their vote is not a reason not to give it to those who will. Surely it is about education, are you working with organisation like the Citizenship Foundation to ensure this? It may not be the sake that young people don't bother to vote but I believe I am correct to say the right to abstain is upheld in this country and when people are not being represented it is a justified reason not to vote. I do not know if you read the addition of The Newspaper you appeared in but on the front page article it stated alarming figures that 186 000 eighteen year olds will not be able to exercise their right to vote due to system failures. I ask you within you ministry if would try to rectify the problem for these young people who do come in the age range of the Children and Young People's Unit. Due to this system failure these are now socially excluded young people who need to be your first to bring into line with the political system.

Richard Angell MYP
Leighton Buzzard

Why don't you open up a pedophile unit near Buckingham Palace or Downing st instead of Nottingham? The amount of police covering the afore mentioned would greatly reduce police presence which are badly needed for dealing with criminals allready in Nottingham. We have enough problems with high council tax bills without having to fork out more money looking after these degenerate scum full time.

E. Castillo

I read in the paper that York Council wanted 拢700,000 from Derbys to pay towards new flood defenses. EMT's item made it so it is a big deal. It will be only an extra 拢2.50 per year at the most. This is way under the rate of inflation. So chill Derby people!

Michelle
Nottingham

How come people are being hit on the head by collapsing streetlamps, or jumping out of the way, and being run over by motorists skiding on ungritted roads, or bouncing off disintegrating road surfaces (or "traffic calming" measures)?

And yet the council can afford hundreds of thousands of pounds for new bus lanes.

Hundreds of thousands of pounds for resurfacing old bus lanes in new colours (significantly in red?).

Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of pounds on so-called "traffic calming" schemes.

Hundreds of thousands of pounds ripping out road humps that were alright for motorists, but must be too high for buses on diversions.

Hundreds of thousands of pounds on new lower "bus" humps (which will probably be replaced with higher ones when the diversions end, at a cost of more hundreds of thousands of pounds).

And millions of pounds on new digital cameras, which will monitor the law abiding motorists sticking to 40 mph on dual carriageways, and miss all the maniacs who would be doing over 40 mph down residential roads instead.

But as the residential roads are covered in tank traps, the maniacs will actually be doing 1 mph over the bumps, and accelerating to over 80 mph in between, to keep to their 40 mph plus average speed.

PS Stanley - see you at

www.bogush.fsnet.co.uk
The 成人论坛 is not responsible for the content of external Internet sites.

Bogush
Nottingham

in reply to himself...

Ok NET/Council, whilst you don't have any money to replace dangerous streetlights, or repair dangerous road surfaces, there seems to be plenty of money sloshing around to resurface all the bus stops and bus lanes in a nice pretty red.

How's this for an excellent public relations exercise, to prove once and for all that you were right all along:

Get hold of a load of that white lining you are using for the 24 hour bus lanes (where are the 24 hour buses?) and paint a nice double white line along the actual tram route, where the rails will actally be.

Then, once a week, drive five single deckers, nose to tail, ALONG the lines, just to remind everyone exactly what a clever idea it is.

PS, As this isn't an upgrade to an existing line, shouldn't at least one of the bright sparks who thought up this scheme have come up with this idea ages ago. Before it even got to the planning stage?!?!

PS Stanley, did you ever look at "your" page on my site? How about a response!

bogush
nottingham

good news for Bogush

I have visited your site Bogush, and what can I say? Very impressive, with lots of useful links. 'My' link was working when I visited it before, but I guess you were tired of waiting for my response as it's not there now. You're never going to convince me that cars are less harmful to the environment than public transport, conversely I don't think a geographer can convince a former lawyer the opposite is true. We do both agree that energy is taxed unfairly though - you think oil is taxed too high, I think other fuels are too low - generally carbon-based, but I take your point about nuclear (fission). I don't agree with adding further taxes on electricity, but sure, crank up the tax on fossil fuels and nuclear power so renewables become more viable.

Stanley
Basford, Nottingham

Stop your moaning about the NHS. You expect sympathy. Get off your backside and do something useful.

Terry Jones
West Bridgford

I am not a killjoy, but this year I am heartily sick of so-called carol singers knocking on my door. I answer their summons only to be greeted by "We wish you a merry Christmas" and an outheld hand! When challenged, these infants could not even complete the first verse of "Jingle Bells", let alone sing a Carol all the way through! This is tantamount to begging and as such is illegal. Some of these children are barely five years old. Do their parents know where they are and what they are doing, and if so, do they endorse their actions? My own two children could sing many carols while at school, but it appears they are not taught nowadays - does the national curriculum prevent children learning the real meaning of christmas? And is it really safe for young tots to go round knocking on doors on dark evenings?

Margaret Pugsley
Nottingham

I have been a regular rail traveller for the last twenty years. I can honestly say that it has become worse since privatisation, not better.

Only a few years ago you could ring your local station and after a few attempts usually get through. You could get full and accurate information about trains. Then you could book by credit card.

That has all changed now. For example, I've been trying to ring Central Trains for weeks and I get either constant engaged tones, or the "number unobtainable" tone. Their website contains a few flash graphics, and that's about it. They have no up to date information regarding their train timetable at all.

I have no confidence in this company to run trains to time whatsoever. If any other company didn't answer its 'phones, it would be out of business.

That is why I'm travelling to Manchester tomorrow by bicycle, stopping off in Nottingham for one night on the way. In total it will probably take me about 9 hours to get there, which is a higher average speed than some trains have managed recently.

Rail privatisation has done nothing to make things better for the customer, but plenty for the shareholders. For the railways to be allowed to get into such a state of disrepair is appalling to say the least.

Regardless of whether the railways are renationalised, in a few years there'll probably only be one company running them, and I bet it will be called "British Rail".

John Airey
Peterborough

and John's not the only one upset

Like John from Peterborough and Richard who I presume hails from Hucknall, I too find the services provided by Central Trains to be totally unacceptable. It is quite right that trains are run dangerously overcrowded and they are usually late. Some of the Central Trains staff are very good and understanding, some however are downright rude. I have complained in writing on several occasions, however, this appears to be totally ineffective - do standards improve - NO! Most people won't complain because they consider it to be a waste of time - perhaps it is. On the collection of fares on the Robin Hood Line, a point which Richard raises, he is quite right, people who travel to Bulwell and Hucknall do often not usually have to pay or show their tickets on the overcrowded services. In one letter of complaint which I wrote, I suggested to Central Trains that perhaps if they collected the fares they may be able to afford to reduce the number of "train failures", a regular reason for cancellations and late running. All I got in return was a letter which I considered had not answered any of my questions and which I also found to also carry rather aggressive undertones. The recent Railtrack problems are just a side-issue. The problems on the Robin Hood Line occur without any help from Railtrack. They are the fault of Central Trains - nobodyelse I recently had a letter printed in the Nottinngham Evening Post. If complaining directly to Central Trains has no effect, I can only advise everyone who is dissatisfied to write to your local paper. Accept your criticism Central Trains and do something about it as your standards are poor!

Richard
Sutton-In-Ashfield

I would like to praise the NHS. My 84 year old father visited his GP in September with a suspected hernia. He had an appointment with consulatant at Bassetlaw hospital late October and had his operation early December. The staff were great and service excellent. I just wish that people would stop complaining

Graham
Newark

in reply

Your father was so lucky that he was seen as quickly as he was. And no I will not stop complaining about the NHS as I am appalled that my 10 year old son has to wait forty six weeks before he even gets an appointment. I have just seen on the news about this new ENT dept that has opened at the Queens, hopefully things will improve.

Wendy
Nottingham

I have just had a letter from the ENT Dept at the Queens to tell me that my son will have to wait forty six weeks before he even gets an appointment to be seen. I am absolutely disgusted with this. How long when we finally get an appointment will we then have to wait, 3, 6, 9 months. I know that his is not an urgent case but to have to wait nearly a year even to just get an appointment, I am appalled.

Wendy
Nottingham

More rail misery,

This is nothing new !!

The morning train (rush hour and two coaches!) to Nottingham is usually full by the time it reaches Hucknall (always 10 to 15 minutes late).
Standing is the norm - often too full for the conductor to collect the fares!(is that why the service is losing money!) - with people crammed into all nooks and crannies.
How can this be safe?

This on top of cancelled services.
(The 'information' displays at the stations are never kept up to date).

The evening rush-hour services are as bad - always late departing, usually overcrowded, often cancelled.

This so-called Public Service is beyond a joke.

This abysmal level of service was being provided before the disruption caused by the weather and/or track maintenance - that has simply provided them with a new excuse.

All the government subsidies given to the rail operators goes to inflate the director's bonuses and line the shareholders's pockets, and the passengers can go to hell (unless the train is cancelled!).

Richard
Location unknown

Well done to the South Notts MP who wants the railwats renationalised. This will allegedly bring people back to the railways. Someone ought to point out to the MP concerned that it's because of the lack of investment when the railways were nationalised that we're now seeing tracks break and the entire network coming to it's knees. At least now we're not putting up with rolling stock that's 30 years old like we used to. As an everyday rail user I think railtrack need to be given time, and money to put the railways back in order after the years of neglect they've suffered.

Ian T
Long Eaton

and in reply...

Someone ought to point out to ...Ian T... that it's because of the lack of investment when the railways were nationalised that they were privatised, because the private sector claimed that it could provide that investment.

Railtrack ...have been.... given time.

But it is they, and the railway companies, that were supposed to have provided the money to put the railways back in order after the years of neglect they've suffered.

If they can already afford to pay back the "investors" with generous dividends, and reward their directors with generous salaries, that would seem to indicate that they believe that they have already
completed their mission.

So why do they need any more money from the taxpayers.

If the taxpayers have, or even had, to pay: what exactly was the point of privatisation?!

Bogush
Nottingham

Tobacco is a bad thing.If you can get some good out of it like money for the Universities.You should take all you can get out of them.

Paul Darling
Location Unknown

Could somebody explain what has happened to Nottingham City Transport? Over the past couple of months things have just got worse and worse. No end of buses are not turning up (especially the ring road services 53/54 and the 70/23/73 from Basford to City), those that do turn up are absolutely full. (No end of peak time services between QMC and the Futurist do not turn up, or stop at the *wrong* stop at QMC which happens a lot with the late service). Andy why do they insist on making the 70B a minibus on a Saturday morning! It is always standing room only by the time it gets to Basford, which means those people who want to go to Clifton not City later in the route cannot catch the service.

Drivers seem to be getting more foul tempered by the minute - especially as far as the new bus card is concerned, everything that you do is wrong as some drivers want to see the photo before scanning the card, others vice-versa and if you get it wrong you get their full wrath!!

Consequently, with the terrible service why have fares gone up 10p?
We now pay 15p more than we did 18 months ago for what really is only half the service. Also, if Nottingham City Council wants people to give up their cars then this will never happen if NCT carries on the way it is. I am extremely glad I drive to work - I live in Basford but work in Bilborough and when I used to cath the bus it used to take over an hour on a good day - compared to a 10 minute drive in the car!!!! However, my wife still uses the bus and gets more and more exasperated when it now takes her an hour to get from QMC to home instead of 20 minutes.

What's happening? Is there any end in site to all this madness? Nobody in Nottingham will give up their car if this carries on.

Phillip Darlington
Nottingham

What a difference the new speed cameras made to the traffic on the Ring Road! For once, no-one was speeding, cutting you up or being generally obnoxious. Perhaps a few more of these digital cameras around the city would make the place a much better place to drive in - if, that is, the roads are not snarled up because one lane is taken up by the odd bus that comes along when it feels like it. People use cars because the buses are so unreliable, and short journeys are excessively expensive. The best way to get cars off the road is to provide a good, cheap, reliable public service, be it road or rail, and then people would want to use it. No-one likes sitting in traffic jams for hours on end, but this is preferable to standing in a bus queue in the cold and rain, waiting for a bus that might not come; this is why cars are so popular.

Margaret Pugsley
Nottingham

I've been trying to find singles clubs in Nottingham but I'm surprised there does'nt seem to be much or am I wrong ? The only one I have found are The Old Vic. Could someone plese let me know if there are any more?

Osmond Noakes
Nottingham

Please help!
Our cat has gone missing. She was last seen wandering the streets of Ruddington. She is a thin with a white coat with black and brown splodges and answers to the name of 'Suki'. She is a fairly timid cat and new to the area so think she might have got lost. Please mail in if you have any news.

Sarah
Ruddington

Nottingham city council will destroy the centre of Nottingham by elimiating all free park. And what about those people who are unable to use public transport to get into the centre.

Stephen
Nottingham

Awake Nottingham! Robin Hood will not save you if the Council is determined to convert the city to a shadow of its old self.

Nobody want to keeps all the factory terraced housing but some buildings are historic. Many have been lost to "development" - a recent example being the stolid, magnificent T. Bailey Forman newspaper offices.

The latest in danger is the Thurland Street branch of the NatWest. This Bank has announced plans to vacate the building but will the City Council "develop" (flatten) it?

This building is reminiscent of the old O'Connell Street GPO in Dublin and is classic architecture. Will any heritage group be prepared to stop the possible "development" of this historic site next year?

I await a positive reply.

Adrian Scollin
Nottingham

EMT Wednesday evening quoted milk prices to farmers as held down to 16 pence per litre by the big processors. How much milk are these processors buying in from the French and other continental suppliers who are dumping meat and milk into this country to protect their own farmers. Expose this practice and persuade our supermarkets and food processors to buy British products where you're safe from the risk of BSE contamination.

Chris
Market Harborough

I AM APPALLED AT THE MOMENT BY THE TYPE OF WEATHER WE AS A COMMUNITY HAVE BEEN DEALT. IT IS NOVEMBER AND WE ARE FRICKIN FREEZING MR BIGGLESWORTH. I FEEL YOU SHOULD CHANGE THE WEATHER FOR THE BETTER.

I.P.FREELY
NORMALTON

Does everyone know what inclusion means in our schools? Big chiefs have decided every child should be included in mainstream schools. Good idea you may say but in my experience it stops the children from reaching their full potential. There are too many interruptions by badly behaved children. It sets a very bad example to the otherwise sensible children. Often these children, that in the past would have had specialist teaching with smaller classes and more staff per pupil,are verbally and physically abusive. Teachers are going to leave the profession in droves and people won't want to train to be a teacher.

Anon
Bulwell, Nottm.

and in reply...

As a very recent ex-teacher I totally agree with Anon; the word "inclusion" in schools, in fact means "exclusion" children at both ends of the spectrum of ability. Appropriate provision is not made for children with a/some special needs, either in terms of resourcing or expertise. These children are superficially kept boyant by classroom assistants who often struggle to get the support that they themselves need. The children who struggle, with either a learning ,behavioural or physical difficulty, are often cruelly isolated by their peers, and never experience the pride that comes from being 'the best'. As for the other children in the class, they suffer from a lack of teacher focus, as obviously the teacher must respond to the extra demands coming from the special needs of the minority. Unfortunately, at present, all children are now suffering from the unknowledgable and unrealistic initiatives of dabbling politicians who have constantly changed systems and policies in the hopes that they come up with something that will enhance their image! I have spent the last twenty years working within the education system, covering support for all age groups, and it is most distressing to see so many children losing years of education time, and seeing so many teachers beaten down by the constant pressures of change, and the constant lack of credibility.

Barbara B
Mansfield

I read with dismay in last weeks Evening Post that the City planners are thinking of selling the old waterworks adjacent to the Brewhouse Yard Museum complex in order for it to be turned into yet another trendy restaurant/bar! Yet again, another piece of Nottingham history is to be gutted to fuel the Treasury purse at the expense of history and the next generations heritage. How long will the people of Nottingham allow the City planners to ride roughshod over our heritage! What with the Black Boy, Flying Horse, Pearsons - not to mention the untold damage done to old street systems and buildings in the 60's and 70's, we seem to live in a city which tries to bury its past instead of revelling in it and turning it into revenue, such as places like York and Lincoln. The old waterworks at the moment houses archives, archaeologists and social history departments - no doubt they will all be shunted off to some dingy corner inaccessible to the public - and despite what the council says about educational facilities being built on the site (as a sweetner) - who believes them! If the council feels it is such a prime site, why do'nt they make more of it themselves - or doesn't that fit into the Leisure Services plans, which seems also to include the closure of the Canal Museum (now a pub!), the Industrial Museum at Wollaton in favour of more sport centres and theme pubs. Is there any body else out there as fed up with this attitude as I am?

Jayne Tomlinson
Nottingham

and in reply...

Why the dismay? It never ceases to dismay me that the public is dismayed by the antics of politicians. Apart from the far right, most politicians are either socialist and hate British culture and history, or liberals and feel guilty about it (something to do with imposing those nasty, polluting railways on India). The few in the centre daren't put their heads above the parapet for fear of being lumped in with the far right. (Just look at the reaction to some of my posts on transport and fuel taxes by "the Left". On some things I'm further to the left than they'll ever be, but just because I disagree with some idealogical claptrap for commonsense reasons I must be wrong, and Right!?!) Then, just possibly, filthy lucre might come into it. There's no money, for anyone, in history and culture. Unfortunately people buy the spin and marketing when it comes to election time (if they even bother to vote) instead of using their common sense.

bogush
nottingham

another reply to Jayne...

I have to agree with Jayne Tomlinson: the last thing Nottingham needs in another bar/cafe! Its not as if we don't have too many already... It seems like everytime a building becomes vacant in the city centre it becomes another place to eat or drink. Soon the centre will consist entirely of shops and cafe bars... Tourists want culture, art and historical interest - not just places to part with their money. "Come to Nottingham - a great place to buy over-priced drinks"... Stop selling off Nottingham's heritage!

Giles Metcalfe
Nottingham

and in the same vein...

The City Planners have ruined the best parts of Nottingham from the '60's' onwards. Drury Hill could have been made into a real olde worlde street, and some of the best old buildings have been pulled down. The caves under Toll House Hill, with its prehistoric cave paintings, were just plastered over, and what is now going to happen to the old City Wall, under the shops on Chapel Bar? Will that be lost in the mists of time too? Wake up, people of Nottingham before our heritage is gone forever!

Margaret Pugsley
Nottingham