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From Dumnonia to perfidious Albion

Graham Smith | 14:18 UK time, Saturday, 21 August 2010

kilbrandon2.jpgPesky things, original sources. Those who like to quote selectively from the Royal Commission on the Constitution 1969-73 Volume 1 (better known in the blogosphere as the Kilbrandon Report, named after Baron Kilbrandon, a Scottish judge and Law Lord, formerly known as Charles Shaw; died 1989) tend to leave out these bits, even though they are from the same paragraph and pages (para 329, pages 101-102):

"Cornwall has, however, been governed as part of England for a thousand years and, despite its individual character and strong sense of regional identity, there is no evidence that its people generally have a wish to see it separated for the purposes of government from the rest of England. What they do want is recognition of the fact that Cornwall has a separate identity and that its traditional boundaries shall be respected. While we studied with interest evidence presented to us, we have not been able to find ways in which this demand could be met within any framework of constitutional change that we would consider appropriate."

Not much comfort there for the nationalist cause. But a few sentences later:
"The creation of the Duchy of Cornwall in the fourteenth century may have been in some respects a mark of English overlordship, but it established a special and enduring relationship between Cornwall and the Crown. Use of the designation on all appropriate occasions would serve to recognise both this special relationship and the territorial integrity of Cornwall, on which our witnesses laid great stress."
As I have blogged before, Kilbrandon was careful to use the word "appropriate" - there is not even a hint of "should" or "ought" or "must" call Cornwall a Duchy. And Kilbrandon's context (usually ignored by those who seek to quote him) is in terms of the "relationship between Cornwall and the Crown." In other words, he was sucking up to the Royals. And is he being just the teensiest bit patronising towards those witnesses "who laid great stress" on Cornwall's territorial integrity?

There are 580 pages in the Kilbrandon Report and several references to Cornwall - in all of them Kilbrandon calls Cornwall a county. For heaven's sake, he even lumps Cornwall in with a South West region (para 221, page 70):

"The new counties of Avon, Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Gloucestershire, Somerset and Wiltshire will be in the region."

The Kilbrandon Report is now 40 years old and of dubious relevance. Commissioned by Harold Wilson, published by Edward Heath, it lead to important reforms in Scottish law, particularly in relation to children's rights. Its main contribution towards modern British politics was to lay the groundwork for early thinking on Scottish and Welsh devolution.


But a clear mandate for calling Cornwall a Duchy? Definitely not clear at all, and certainly not in the context that some Cornish nationalists claim.

Comments

  • Comment number 1.

    So whilst the Celtic League mount a protest outside the very station you are in highlighting the fact that the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ is anti-Cornish you post this, are you just trying to prove their point?

  • Comment number 2.

    And HRH The Duke Of Cornwall is Duke of The ????? Of ???????? ?

    Please provide the missing words, Mr Smith.

  • Comment number 3.

    Put your hand in the Cornish hat, pull out one of the many Nationalist claims, down-size it a tad on your blog..

    While a Cornish Nationalist rips up your future wage slip outside in the rain.

    Crap effort - bad timing.



  • Comment number 4.

    You seemed quite keen on FOI requests last month, Mr Smith.

    Does your enthusiasm extend to making FOI requests to the Duke of The Duchy Of Cornwall for a tally of the individual and accumulated value of all intestate (bona vacantia) estates assumed for ownership and disposal by the Dukes of The Duchy Of Cornwall in all of the last seven centuries and asking from which territorial location they originated and to which purposes those bona vacantia acquired assets were put?

    You might like to let your readers know the results of your enquiries.

  • Comment number 5.

    As for the topic..

    "As I have blogged before, Kilbrandon was careful to use the word "appropriate" - there is not even a hint of "should" or "ought" or "must" call Cornwall a Duchy."

    When dealing with matters of constitutional proportion you do not instruct others to how they 'must' and 'should' behave - you advise them of the "appropriate" use of official terminology based on solid facts and historical truths.

    The ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ should embrace the 'appropriate terminology' advise themselves when referring to Cornwall in a territorial or geographical context.

    It is beyond belief - or worse, total incompetence - that the ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ in Cornwall does not yet know the true constitutional status of Cornwall and its unique relationship with the Duke of Cornwall and the Crown of England, considering the amount of media coverage it has received in recent years including its own Radio Cornwall debates on nationalism.

    The word is out Graham..
    Has been for a while.

  • Comment number 6.

    Very clever Mr Smith. Why not report what's happening outside the door, rather than cheap, tedious and smug shots like this?

    Although at least one of the staff at Radio (not)Cornwall has had the inclination to find out what the Royal Commission on the Constitution actually is, albeit to (blindly) justify their existence.

    If ever there was a reason for the protest happening right now outside the studio, your crass blog is it!

    As for your journalistic skills... a quick lesson in grammar might help. Abberant apostrophes anyone?

  • Comment number 7.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 8.

    Rob: My blog makes only one point - that the Kilbrandon Report does NOT say Cornwall should be called a Duchy. Those who claim otherwise have either not read it, or are trying deliberately to be misleading.
    AC: The Duchy of Cornwall is a landed estate, owned by the Prince of Wales, with most of its acreage in Devon. It is not even the largest landowner in Cornwall. Because it is a privately-owned family business, it is outside the scope of the Freedom of Information Act.

  • Comment number 9.

    You appear a little dogmatic there for one so poorly informed, Mr Smith.
    And somewhat naively gullible and passively accepting of certain sources of information for an 'investigative' 'journalist'.

    Here's some help towards developing your understanding:

  • Comment number 10.

    Your self-enforced ignorance and blinkered refusal to accept the facts is really quite astonishing, Mr Smith.

    Please complete this sentence:

    HRH Duke of Cornwall is The Duke Of C......., the territory lying immediately westwards of the territorial entity known as 'England'.

    Some more assistance to help you complete this simple exercise:

  • Comment number 11.

    Looks like the moderators are struggling....

  • Comment number 12.

    ...with the constitutional and territorial truths concerning The Duchy Of Cornwall revealed at:

  • Comment number 13.

    Graham, the whole point of the constitutional debate is that the Duchy is not what it says it is. In comment number 8 you are just regurgitating the official line. If you look at the laws of the Duchy you will find that it refers to the whole of Cornwall. You don't even have to go very far back, look up the Cornish Foreshore Case of 1858, when the Duchy successfully argued that it owns the foreshore in Cornwall, not the Crown.

    "The Duchy Charters have always been construed and treated, not merely by the Courts of Judicature, but also by the Legislature of the Country, as having vested in the Dukes of Cornwall the whole territorial interest and dominion of the Crown in and over the entire County of Cornwall."

    Perhaps you would like to apply your investigative skills there too? Best wishes

  • Comment number 14.

    One original source at a time, please! My blog post was about the Kilbrandon Report, which simply does not say what some nationalists claim. The Cornish Foreshore Case of 1858 sounds very interesting and I'll try to look into it as soon as I get time.

  • Comment number 15.

    I was only replying to your comment!

    But isn't description of the area in the media an "appropriate occasion"?

  • Comment number 16.


    Ye Gods and little fishes ! The Uk as a whole is in a mess and as such Cornwall is suffering to I can not see the handfull of self rule fanatics being able to improve the lot of the county , No doubt someone will come along and explain to me just how the county would survive standing alone with out handouts .

    Whats next if you are not Cornish you cant have a job here or buy a house It's all very well waving the flag but you need to back up your plan with cold hard facts .

    You could allways have a non Cornish tax i.e If you cant prove 5 generations of a cornish bloodline non of which ever left the county then you pay for those that can !!

  • Comment number 17.

    Well done Graham as you know the fringe of extremists lead by Marhak are stalking your every comment, my media seems to be swamped with this internet based plague now Tony Leamon is taking over @ thisiscornwall because the Celtic league threatened legal action. Give them an island and pack the moaners off

  • Comment number 18.

    Dear ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Moderators,

    Any chance we will be allowed to read any time soon the comment posted above by Angarracks-Angels at 07:45am on 22 Aug 2010 ?

  • Comment number 19.

    "No doubt someone will come along and explain to me just how the county would survive standing alone with out handouts ."

    Actually the Cornish pay their taxes and are entitled to the same support as anywhere else in Britain...and don't get it:

    "Out of a tiny gross domestic product of £3.6 billion, the Government takes over £1.95 billion in taxes, and puts back into the county less than £1.65 billion, a gap of over £300 million."


    @Graham - if Cornwall is so provably a county why doesn't the government and/or Her Majesty the Queen state it, prove it, and let the argument rest? Do they have the proof?

  • Comment number 20.

    Graham, basically, what you are saying above is that Cornwall, according to Kilbrandon, should be called a Duchy when appropriate.
    Which is all that those nationalists are doing, they are calling for Cornwall to be called a Duchy when appropriate.
    So far, there is agreement.

    All we need do now, is to agree on what is deemed "appropriate".
    The Nationalists would argue that it is "appropriate" on all occasions when referring to Cornwall, whereas, it would appear that you would argue that it was never "appropriate" to do so.

    Clearly, Kilbrandon thought that there would, at least, be the odd occasion when calling Cornwall a Duchy would be appropriate, or he would not have bothered mentioning it in his report. Do you have any clue as to when these occasions would be?

  • Comment number 21.

    No serious historian would ignore the context of Kilbrandon's remark: the "special and enduring relationship between Cornwall and the Crown." So my guess is that he thought it was OK to call Cornwall a Duchy when talking about the Royals, but even this is hardly a clear cut recommendation. We have to ask ourselves why he would use the word "appropriate" at all -the second sentence of that particular paragraph makes perfect grammatical sense if you delete "on all appropriate occasions" entirely. What would qualify as an inappropriate occasion? Apart from this reference on page 102, Kilbrandon never talks about a Duchy. At every other opportunity to mention Cornwall, he calls it a county of England. All I can say is don't take my word for it - read the Kilbrandon report yourself, and don't just rely on partial, out-of-context selective quotes.

  • Comment number 22.

    Dear ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Moderators,

    Any chance we will be allowed to read any time soon the comment posted above by Angarracks-Angels at 07:45am on 22 Aug 2010 ?

  • Comment number 23.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 24.

    To be fair Graham the way ³ÉÈËÂÛ̳ Cornwall seem to refer to Cornwall is always as county, never as Duchy or Kernow and seldom as just Cornwall. So ipso facto you yourself and your radio station have deemed it inappropriate to call Cornwall a Duchy are there any grounds for this? You only seem to think its appropriate to call Cornwall a Duchy when you attmept to debunk this title, is that really what Kilbrandon had in mind?

  • Comment number 25.

    It's really hard to know exactly what Kilbrandon had in mind, but he was obviously a clever chap. If he had wanted Cornwall to be called a Duchy I'm sure he could have found the words to express himself clearly, with no room for ambiguity. But he didn't. And on balance, taking his report as a whole, the overwhelming weight of what he has to say labels Cornwall as a county. Without getting too philosophical about it, do we mean Cornwall as a place; just a line on a map? A geographical area of government administration? For most of the time, for journalists trying to report the news, the word "county" works just fine and is easily understood. Is the distinction between "Duchy" and "Crown" important to anyone other than died-in-the-wool Royalists? Aren't they just different branches of the same family firm? The evidence for calling Cornwall a Duchy (outside of this Royalist context) is very thin, and those who for years have quoted Kilbrandon without question really need to find another hero. As I've said, no-one needs to take my word for it - just read Kilbrandon's own words. The point of my blog post was simply to draw attention to the value of primary sources.

  • Comment number 26.

    So, Mr Smith, what kind of 'private estate':

    1.Is automatically entitled to the possessions and assets of anyone dying intestate within its titular territory?
    2.Is deemed owner of all minerals under the foreshore and wrecks upon the foreshore of its titular territory?
    3.Is above and beyond the reach of planning and development rules and requirements as applied to all other planning applicants within its titular territory?
    4.Enjoys exemption, where applicable, from Acts Of Parliament on a par with the Crown?
    5.Is exempt from capital gains tax?
    6.Has a principal who has a right to interfere with and disrupt proceedings in a court of law?
    7.Has a principal who pays voluntary rates and amounts of income tax?

    Simplified summary available here:


    Lastly, Mr Smith, what kind of 'investigative' 'journalist' pontificates prematurely on a complex subject about which he clearly knows so little?

  • Comment number 27.

    Duchy Of Cornwall Management Act 1863:

  • Comment number 28.

    Apologies for my error in comment 25: it should of course be "dyed-in-the-wool Royalists" etc. "Died-in-the-wool" is clearly capable of meaning something else! A thought: The Royal Commission on the Constitution was published in 1973. Baron Kilbrandon died in 1989. So he had ample time to amplify and clarify his intentions. Does anyone know of any other primary sources - interviews, diaries, memoirs etc - where he might have nailed his colours to the Cornish nationalist mast, if that's what he was trying to do?
    AC: I don't dispute the general thrust of the points you make about the Duchy of Cornwall (although I think it does now have to obtain planning consent, like any other developer. And I believe Prince Charles is now in the 40% higher-rate income tax band.) These are the sorts of issues which continue to feed an underlying appetite in some sections of society for outright Republicanism. But your original question was about the Freedom of Information Act.

  • Comment number 29.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 30.

    'But your original question was about the Freedom of Information Act.'
    Forsooth, methinks thou quibbleth, Mr Thmith.
    You inadequately and unduly smugly described what is a constitutional and territorial entity as a 'privately-owned family business' and erroneously cited that as a reason why 'it is outside the scope of the Freedom of Information Act'. The more likely reason 'it is outside the scope of the Freedom of Information Act' is that what we have here is a rather putrid, potentially constitutionally destabilising, embarrassingly self-enriching can of fetid rotting ancient worms.

  • Comment number 31.

    For clarity, I'll start a new blog post about the Duchy of Cornwall as soon as I can. Meanwhile, if anyone has anything new to say about the Kilbrandon Report, please continue to comment here.

  • Comment number 32.

    Are you sure you're actually seeking clarity, Mr Smith, and not actually seeking to generate yet more fog, fuzzy thinking and truth avoiding obfuscation? :

    /blogs/grahamsmith/2010/08/anoraks_corner.html
    /blogs/grahamsmith/2010/08/duchy_says_cornwall_is_a_count.html
    /blogs/grahamsmith/2010/08/bona_vacantia.html
    /blogs/grahamsmith/2010/08/should_it_be_the_duchy_of_devo.html

    Your predetermined agenda appears clear from the thrust of your post titles - your aim appears to be to maintain and seek to propagate an apologia for Duchy Of Cornwall (corp div) misleading propaganda rather than address, investigate and reveal the truths and facts about The Duchy Of Cornwall (territorial entity).

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