成人论坛

WHERE TO BEGIN?

We Britons turned out against the Iraq war and were ignored. Our governANCE is inherently corrupt, and we can do nothing.

Then up pops our usurper PM - who has taken on PRESIDENTIAL POWER - to instruct Egypt in rectitude.

If only the Blogdog would allow the appropriate next line . . .

Weep Westminster - you are an abomination.

Thank goodness Jeremy's back!

In the second link Piers apologises for missing the mild spell in January but then he admits he is still evolving his forecast technique.

"..where tens of thousands of people have gathered for a seventh day of protest..."

What about the other 80million? Surely if you're pushing "democracy" the wishes of the 80million who aren't on the streets should also be taken into account.

And the people on the streets in Egypt are considerably fewer than the the 500,000 who marched in the UK against the Iraq War and whose opinions you dismissed so easily at the time. So please don't use numbers to support your argument.

The Nazies used to ask for your papers. Today they shove their hands down your pants in airports. "Anything to declare?..yes, i do delare I don't like where your hands are buddy!"
Flying is becoming a bit of a chore these days don't you think.

Jeremy's back. It's been so long since I last seen this fella I've forgotton what he looks like. Well at least those rumours about him moving to Sky News has proven to be untrue. Or is he just working out his notice?

I don't know how long its been happening but i saw an old News presenter on 成人论坛 news yesterday. I think it was Julia Summerville. Its good to see that the 成人论坛 adhere to their anti-discrimination employment policies. Black, white, disabled and of any age. Its good to see that the 成人论坛 fly the flag of 'no discrimination in our Corporation'. Full Marks 成人论坛 :)
You'll never be accused of double standards and such like eh.

I THINK PAXO IS A 'FREE-PRANCE' KEV (#5)

Have eyebrows - will travel (to where the money is).

Isn't interviewing and presenting something that many in 'everyday life' could do? Like acting and singing? My guess is that, if someone put 'Y Factor' on our screens, and sought out interviewing talent, they would uncover Jeremy+ in no time.

Market forces do not seem to apply in showbiz.

I THINK PAXO IS A 'FREE-PRANCE' KEV (#5) Redacted #6.

Have eyebrows - will travel.

Isn't interviewing and presenting something that many in 'everyday life' could do? Like acting and singing? My guess is that, if someone put 'Y Factor' on our screens, and sought out interviewing talent, they would uncover Jeremy+ in no time.

Market forces do not seem to apply in showbiz.

PIERS CORBYN REPORT '成人论坛 NOT INTERESTED - WHY?' (#3 links)

Keep those prompts coming Bro.

Susan Watts should interview Piers Morgan re climate. Then interview Richard Gage (architect) re 9/11. Lastly she should contact Wall Thornhill et al (Plasma Universe). These are the true (edgy) cutting-edge of science - not the Blackboard Bungle.

Prepare to be amazed - not.

now since you have been gone Jeremy this has happened..it's all kicked off in Egypt and in Tunisia, the Tories want to sell off all our forests, they will not change their policies over the cuts, they may budge over the price of petrol and Andy Gray has been sacked......now you are back, Jeremy....can you fix it or at least shout at them....

5

yet to see a burkha on the bbc. mind you for women over 50 it might extend their tv career?

'THE BIGGEST RISK IS TO DO NOTHING' - IS THAT LOGIC OR CAMEROON?

It is certainly vintage Tony, so I suppose we should expect the 'heir to Blair' to trot it out. But let's examine the logic: Historically most of what government does turns out to be disaster, and expensive. But they never dare try DOING NOTHING - perhaps because they are all immature and responding to parental edicts? (Devil makes work for idle hands.) Also because party politics is such a ttishy game.

I suggest doing nothing is ALWAYS AND EQUAL OPTION TO DOING SOMETHING, WHEN YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE DOING. They can put that in their manifesto and sign it.

SPOILPARTYGAMES

This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

We are dealing with Egypt over on Mark Mardell`s blog....NN can carry on worshipping Gilbert and George`s artistic droppings and playing ring a ring a roses with News International for all I care!

#10 Aw, JC Don't mention the burka!

FINDING SIMPSON (#7)

Inside every burkha might be a John Simpson trying not to get killed. (Old Sufi saying.)

No one seems to have joined the dots in this Age of Perversity. If JS could avoid detection and recognition IN AFGHANISTAN, in UK, any odd fish, with any intent, could be under there.

The dots are there to be joined.

At a time when day centres are closing for the young, disabled and elderly, the standard of living for the poorest is falling hard and most people are really feeling the pinch, for the super-rich to avoid paying taxes is obscene.

We need to ostracise tax avoiders - so let's have a much tighter concept of citizenship.

You live here - you pay our taxes - and that appplies to direct relatives too and companies you own - you don't want to pay? Fine - leave.

As a non resident citizen you are only allowed in to the UK for two weeks every five years.

Either you are part of the UK and pay taxes, or you are not - pure and simple.

British Non Doms who own large stakes in businesses active in the UK either pay their share of taxation on their incomes or their companies have to pay UK taxes because they are owned by UK citizens.

The final line of attack should be a profits export tax which can be applied to the UK subsidiaries of companies sending profits overseas and those non-doms who want to retire back to the UK should be liable for 50% back taxation as if they had lived here, before we let them back in.

The UK market is lucrative and there are plenty of takers wanting to sell to british consumers - we should end the idea that they can do so without paying taxes and the way to do that is to single out super rich individuals and companies that operate out of tax havens and pay virtually no tax here on large UK profits: a profit export tax would make this pointless.

If this drives them out of the UK, then so what? If mobile phone companies walked, others would take their market share and this equally applies to clothing retailers, etc.

If you want to make money out of the British people, you must accept your fair share of the burden of taxation.

I'd go further - you also need to employ Brits to make the goods and services too - there is no scope for bucaneer entrepreneurs paying no UK taxes, maufacturing in China and importing goods to sell to debt-ridden Brits.

The tax-free lunches are over.....

I feel unnerved about the situation in Egypt.

It is only a few years since my wonderful trip to that fabulous country where the people were so friendly and welcoming. Albeit that they relied on tourism to earn their living.

My illusion was shattered only a week after my return when the nastier element of the country slaughtered tourists like animals at the temple where I had stood only a week before.

With a population of 80 million we are seeing a small element of the nastier side of Egypt trying to take over and in the process are wrecking their economy and some of the wonders of what we go there to see and spend our money on for the good of their economy.

This is well organised no matter what we see reported and we should reserve our judgement while the government restore law and order. I take much umbridge with Tony Blair over the Iraq war but today he spoke with much wisdom.

For anyone already fed up with Egypt and the fact that the Corporate Nazi's have already got their globalist puppet El Baradie lined up to take over this is on the other side for the first half of the programme.

Lord Christopher Monckton on 成人论坛 4 tonight 10 pm, meet the climate sceptics.

THE TROUBLE WITH PERVERSITY - IT DOESN'T COMPUTE (#16)

I worked with a guy, years ago, who was so screwed up, he preferred to do a bent deal, even if there was no gain. Power and money, being different forms of one essence, it follows that politicians and the super rich are natural allies - and they are perverse with it.

1984 said it all. As culture erodes, and madness enfolds, we are all headed for loving big Brother. Till then, I am with you Richard.

WHO WROTE THE WISDOM? (#17)

If I may be blunt:

Blair was, is, and will always be an actor, VSLady. All his words are for effect - all the world's a stage.

In passing, it was IDS who ushered in the Iraq war, but what Blair said (directly or indirectly) to a weak and gullible man, we will never know, unless Chilcot 'gets it'.

My one hope is that when 9/11 is revealed as a self-inflicted charade, Dubya and Tony will be seen in true blood-red light. Only then might truth out.

I HAVE WORKED WITH A RANGE OF SCIENTISTS - NURSE DID NOT 'FEEL' RIGHT (#19)

Something very odd about Sir Paul Nurse. And his 'proofs' seemed to work just as well in reverse.

Any other researchers on here? Is it me?

鈥�...and we have a piece about protest closer to home鈥︹��

I have decided to join a local protest group, being frustrated and tired of the total indifference (by MPs and media) to the many blogs on issues that are important and in need of change in our society.

Tonight on 成人论坛4 at 2300 is a repeat of 鈥楾he Highest Court in the Land: Justice Makers. This (repeat?) episode on the workings of our 鈥榡ustice system鈥� shows the idiocy of our judicial system, particularly at the top of the profession, where remoteness from realities of life and a myopic determination to apply 鈥榯he letter of the law鈥� rather than real justice, results in so many unfair and unjust judgements.

Our UK courts, including Our 鈥楬ighest Court in the Land鈥� are often prevented from proper consideration of the effect on our society of their decisions by the superior authority of the EU Court, and the extremes of the Human Rights Act. Earlier programmes have debated the history of justice, recognising that changing times and circumstances need different criteria and even redefinitions of 鈥楯ustice鈥� and 鈥楩airness鈥�.

To me, the HRA and the superiority of the European Court seriously restricts the scope for our justice system to examine all implications of judicial decisions, leaving magistrates and judges at all levels to scrutinise and interpret words and phrases, rather than deliver judgements that take account of the effect of such decisions on society and not just based on a rigid upholding of the HRA and other laws and statutes that cannot always fit changing needs and mores. Meanwhile, sharia law spreads through courts that have no authority in English Law, and new 鈥楨quality鈥� legislation will probably make things worse(and certainly more expensive and lengthy).

If we cannot throw off the idiocy of HRA and stop the control by EU, then we should draft a British Constitution or a Citizen鈥檚 Charter that requires judicial decisions to take account of the rights and safety of our society, and thus eliminate some of the gross distortions of justice by balancing the rights of society against those of the individual 鈥� often those whose actions have little or no regard for their responsibilities or the law.

Blairhelem.

what peace process? the Israeli State cannot deliver the settlers. if they try they get assassinated. The israeli state funds people who write the King's Torah which a manifesto of racial supremacy

it is the UK and USA that is preventing a resolution of the peace process by propping up the occupationists. why is the region 'volatile'? are just states volatile or unjust ones?

Tony is a patron of the JNF whose racial policies would be illegal in the UK.

Blair is fulfilling the passage in the King's Torah that the gentiles are only there to serve them.

Jaunty: connect the dots.

the current course for Israel is untenable, they will face a united and enraged Islam. The ones giving the arms, and the encouragement, are European and American 'Old Blood' - the ones who set up the Final Solution.

perhaps B'Liar is not working FOR the Jews, but AGAINST them? Just because Baby wants to play with the turned-on chainsaw, does not mean allowing them to is action in Baby's best interests...? No matter how much they wail and gnash their teeth.

richard: fantastic post! When there is so much intelligence out here, why is there so little shown by the talking-heads on the box?? If they don't have the ability to think, at least surely they have the ability to listen?

Well I don`t know what you chaps think but I think it`s time we used the Murdoch press and the Daily Mail and mounted a campaign to get the 成人论坛 moderators sacked for being perverse.

We sit here day after day trying to save our country from the clutches of barbarism and ignorance and stuidity and the Beebs typically contemptuous approach is to hire some barmy asylum seeker to censor our efforts randomly and at will. Can anyone suggest a good quick and effective way to start?

#19/#22: my best estimates, feel free to completely disagree, that some AGW is exaggerated. But that there are HUGE environmental concerns we need to be looking at.

to split this down, there seems to me to be a range of scientific groups involved in this debate, all with their particular followers, - and funders.

1. genuinely seeing evidence of climate change, reporting it accurately, open to new considerations as further data comes in, not sure what impact humans are having, but it seems highly likely we are having SOME.
2. genuinely seeing evidence of climate change, slightly massaging for for a number of reasons (as humans are wont to do normally), possibly self-interest, possibly just out of concern that if we do not change our environmental ways, we are truly [bleeped].
3. promoting AGW, because either has interests in, or is funded by, that small group who could profit enormously. Gore springs to mind.

4. genuinely seeing no evidence of anthropomorphic global warming, reporting it accurately, open to new considerations as data comes in regarding climate change.
5. seeing evidence of climate change, but massaging it to downplay the hysteria, and the Corporate Green-Wash Conspiracy. Emphasising AGW instead of wider pollution.
6. out and out propagandists for doing NOTHING (that Russian article claiming oil is produced from underground crystals springs to mind, brossen), bealzebubsiness as usual. This group ignores the entirely of the ecological damage we are causing, that resources are finite and running out, and that as an intelligent species we can, and most definitely SHOULD, be planning for the future and sustainability, energy security, and improving our biosphere for future generations. And ourselves, for that matter.

mixed in there are also scientists 'reputations'. And politician's dishonesty. You can also add various 'intelligence agencies' spreading disinformation to paralyse other countries ability to adapt to the changing conditions, which will leave them vulnerable later as the shortages hit acute levels. If you want. Personally, i think it would be more remarkable if they WEREN'T doing this, bearing in mind history.

as for Nurse, didn't see his performance.

as for the 成人论坛 - i think many of the staff are TRULY concerned about both the dangers of continued uncontrolled pollution upon our habitats, AND the dangers of not preparing for resource-shortages, especially oil.

the unfortunate thing in all this, is the focus was put upon carbon-caused AGW, which bearing in mind the greater ecological problems above, can be seen as something of a blind-alley - a way for deeper questions about our environmental behaviour, and future planning, to be side-tracked.


i post again:




can we see now, that being apparently able to demolish "AGW", leaves the ACTUAL ecological problems completely unfixed - but with some Green-Wash Corporates making greater profits, and the debates corrupted into name-calling and egotism? I personally think in the longer term, we will discover there IS some AGW going on, but probably (HOPEFULLY!!!!!) on a slower time-scale, and with more redundancies built into our ecology (GAIA is not only tough, but a smart old bird as well!) that will operate as a cybernetic, complex system is supposed to. I also hope we will collectively come to some sort of wisdom, and start using our intelligence in combination with intuition to not only minimise the harm we do to the biosphere, but also make a good start on healing it.

and also achieving ecologically sound sustainable energy, as well. And if its not TOO much to ask, Santa, could we also have economies built on sound sustainable and accountable cooperatives, rather than KKKorporate-KKKontrol?

and now i am REALLY going into space-land, but if is possible, pretty please, could we actually have politicians who are concerned with the well-being of the whole population, rather than the few with far too much money??

::posts letter up chimney::

...i was wondering if Jeremy had quit NN, thankful to discover this is not the case! :-D

'The Pax don't Redacts, The Pax don't Redacts'!!

yeah i know, but i only spent a min on it. :P

the inner empire doesn't care for the british people. they just want to play their role games and will play the fool for anyone who gives them money. Just think of what happened when the romans came. the inner empire got rich while rome got the taxes out the poor. what's changed since except the names of the foreign tax collectors the inner empire sells the british people to?

25

blair is a believer. he wanted to act out the rock star. that is the limit of his ambition.

PROTEST GROUP ETIQUETTE (#32)

Heartfelt good wishes IDG2. If your group has the maturity and self discipline to achieve advances, they will demonstrate that all is not lost.

I worry in terms of that famous Groucho remark.

My approach is to chip away, slowly undermining the belief in Westminster's foulest that they are untouchable.

#29: Jaunty, you got it on the head.

As perhaps predictable from an eco-fascist leaning 成人论坛 the 成人论坛4 Monckton programme turned into yet another global warmist propaganda exercise. Unfortunately it is probably no longer the case that alleged mainstream science can be trusted as it revolves around the generation of investment scams and a Corporate Nazi agenda.

Fabulous Jeremy back on-air tonight! Outstanding interviews with Crowley & Lord Falconer and particularly the debate with the UK Uncut guy & Baran. Priceless. Welcome back :o)

govt is cutting the numbers of Tax officers who srutinise the Corporates?

was that 'Board of Directors' spokesperson even human??

his entire solution to UK Corporation tax evasion on the scale of multi 拢bns, is to enter into a competition with other countries to drive our 'Corporation Tax' down to zero??

but "cuts in benefits and services to the poorest" in the UK are NECESSARY!?!

superb show tonight NN, loved the footage of the street protests, the sheer decency and truthfulness of these people are an inspiration, and a wonder to behold. If our politicians had the Quality of the spokesman from UK Uncut, not only would Parliament and the News be far more pleasant to observe, but we would also eventually have far less problems as a Nation.

i'd vote for him, in his constituency.

I had heard this about Vodafone, and as a result I asked for by PAC number in December. I've only just got it, and I think that was because I went to OFCOM.

So who are the 22 companies? Do you have that information at Newsnight? Is it public?

CHAOS RULES AND THEY DON'T HAVE A CLUE - SEND FOR AL GORE (#33)

Did you hear on Radio News: Alaska is now 'commercially unfrozen'?

Oh - it's all going awfully well.

No good formulating without taking cosmic electrical flows into account - and probably a load of stuff we don't know as well.

More things in Heaven and Earth.

#35: gotta agree with the Falconer interview. You couldn't have scripted that, - not even Ricky Gervais! A perfect balance of understandability, with an introduction to the esoteric and often bizzarre rules of UK politics - mixed with wit. :)

here would be a popular amendment - agree to hold a straight referendum ASAP, to ask the Public if they would prefer being given the choice between AV and PR in the Constitutional Reform Bill referendum.

then the acual referendum would have the current FPTP system, and the preferred choice of the Public as the second choice, leaving those who liked the other alternative choice to make up their own minds.

it seems the Lords put up a good struggle, but it might be impossible to add such a rider for them, but it can still be added by the Commons 3rd Reading, right?

also, i know i should google, but have the Tories dropped the part of the Bill where they automatically become invulnerable to Votes of No Confidence, even if there is a vote against Electoral Reform? It wasn't mentioned tonight.

UK uncut:
Beware the man -usualy a young man - asking for more tax to be paid by others: The rich, big business, corporations etc. UK uncut are asking in effect more redistribution of wealth arn't they, because they can't make it in the world themselves. And these are made-up from the Marxist/lib/student brigade. Why do some assume more tax increases means more money will float about in the system..when its nearly always the opposite. And we all know who creates the wealth; its the ones who produce a product or provide a service, its never the public sector. Go ahead and lets do something about tax avoidence, fair enough. Will the shareholders take a hit do you think? maybe..maybe not. Will jobs be cut..more than likely. UK -uncut are well meaning folk and I can buy into some of their beef..but bottom line, they are fools and know nothing about the world of business or making money and creating wealth. Credit due to Paxman for playing this fair. (well 60/40)

39 Speaking of those who know about business and making money Kev....could you point us to some of them who aren`t in organised crime?
Only itwould be nice toyhinkthat 2008 was just a little mistake and nothing to do with the possibility that NO ONE HAS A CLUE!

DO YOU FEEL PROPERLY SERVED BY WHIPPED ROSETTES?

I am genuinely puzzled by discussion of PR v AV when, regardless of the mechanism of voting, WE ARE VOTING FOR PRE-SELECTED CANDIDATES. Have I got this wrong?

Westminster re-distils its toxic essence, every time an election takes place. This has played a major part in entrenchment of the Westminster Malaise, in parties and MPs alike. It manifested in 'cash for honours' and the allowances scandal - both engineered by the feudal 'lord' of the time, and connived at by Westminster's ciphers.

Until each constituency chooses a worthy representative from amongst its own, with no taint of party dogma and no trace of dual (or triple) masters, PR v AV is academic to me.

WESTMINSTER SETS AN EXAMPLE: COMMERCE CHEATS AND OPPOSITION HOWLS

I suspect there is not one Commandment or Deadly Sin that Westminster does not flout AS A CULTURAL NORM. As I have said before - this will be why they feel moved to call one another 'honourable'.

While our governance remains riddled with spiritual corruption, the resultant fetid juices will inexorably 'trickle down' into the governed space, and cohort, going forward.

The seat of our disease is Westminster. Like any truly virulent pathogen, it is equipped to survive all but excision. . .

'THERE IS NO OTHER WAY'

those companies make money because they are allowed to be here, and exploit British workers and resources. Remember, the profits they make are taken from the hard work of normal people, who just as they lose income in "tax", also lose income to "profit", before they take home what's left and try to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table.

it is a privilege we grant them to do business here, to exploit those *we* paid to educate, and keep healthy, and that privilege comes at a price. And that is called "tax".

we keep hearing how the "State drowns out the Private Sector", well the tax-avoiding Corporations are "drowning out" the actual tax-paying, usually small and locally owned companies, who pay the 28% rate.

so to apply the same logic, if those tax-avoiding Corporations run away from the UK because we demand they PAY SOMETHING BACK FOR OUR RESOURCES FROM THEIR EXORBITANT PROFITS, then, perhaps helped along by a Govt actually interested in nurturing small, especially worker-owned companies, the tax-paying part of our economy will ALSO spring up to fill the gap?

these companies are raking in multi-拢Bns from their 'markets' in the UK.

PLANNING FOR THE AFTERMATH - ANOTHER BLAIR TRIUMPH.

Now that Ireland is demonstrating that it takes more than charisma and blagging to do a thorough job, will the 'result' achieved there be attributed to Mo Molam?

Iraq didn't go so well, and Afghanistan is 'too soon to tell'. God knows what his specialism might 'achieve' in Palestine.

As for Global Interfaith, that should be a blast 鈥� when it鈥檚 done.

#41 barry: with PR, it is easy to have multi-member constituencies - larger constituencies that return multiple MPs, depending on share of vote.

then there are the variants: Strong Party Lists, Weak Party Lists.

strong party list is where the Party dictates entirely who gets allocated the Party vote, but weak party lists give the option of voting for specific Party members. The fact of it being multi-member PR though, gives more chance for Independents to get elected.

why do you think the Big-Three Party is quite against it? Even the LibDims have reneged on their promises, so apparently heartfelt until they had a chance to make an input, to support PR and a modern electoral system.

with the 5% minimum vote rule to reduce the impact of the extremist 'parties', such as most of the EU have and around the world, such a system would open Westminster in a way no amount of tinkering by the Big-Three Party Govt could possibly do.

which is also why some parts of the media have been so complicit in downplaying PR, and supporting AV. Apart from a few honest dyed-in-the-wool traditionalists, few honestly believe that the UKs current FPTP electoral system is in any way democratic, or suitable for use in the 21st Century. Many however do not wish to see anything change, in the cosy stitch-up that passes for Govt in Corporate Britain, because it will either erode their privileges, or their private incomes.

I thought I was imagining things when Jeremy spoke of cuts last night. Seems like I wasn't!


:D

#46 HHhhmmm so may slip ups Mistress!

I wonder if the presenters have a bet on as to who can get away with the naughtiest word???!!!! ; )

At least it made me chuckle :oD

Now here's a funny thing, the government want to sell the very ground under our feet, getting rid of the Forestry Commission, selling off woods and land. As there will be a saving of 拢250m a year.Peanuts!

As an example the NHS costs us over 拢100 million a day



In my local paper it informed me that it costs each taxpayer 30p a year to fund! It won't even buy you a chocolate bar.

Then I read this which is costing our workers 拢500 million in lost earnings, and so lost revenue, as the foreign students will all be low, or non tax payers, or not even legal workers.

Governments don't even understand basic economics!

48 Ecolizzie...Governments do understand economics...it`s just that our government doesn`t have the freedom from American neoliberalism (and ruinously expensive US foreign policy) to save us and our way of life from strangulation.

Stop thinking of Britain as an autonomous nation ...and view us just another state of the USA ....and the USE (Europe)....and you will have a more accurate working concept with which to understand what is happening to us.

Westminster and all the 成人论坛 twitter about British politics is simply clouding the issue....and it`s why nothing makes sense to us.

The problem for our London masters is that their livelihoods are bound up in maintaining the fiction as it is.My guess is that if there was a good living to be had from being honest with us many of them would cheerfully confirm what I say....but so far there isn`t!

FOREIGN STUDENTS TO 'TAKE IN MEANING' BUT DOES IT EMERGE AS MANGLISH?


(#48 link)Language

"12. It is also proposed that the language requirement be raised from B1 to B2. This is a significant step up from understanding the main points on familiar matters to understanding the main ideas of a complex text. The latter, of course, being essential to study at degree level."

As for economics Lizzy, government cant see the public wood for the privatised trees.

PREPARED TO LEARN (#45)

Being a Bear of Small Brain, Mork, I struggle with some of your points - partly because I don't know the detail. I don't understand 'multi-member constituencies' or strong/weak lists.

If I can be convinced that ANY voting change offers a crack or fulcrum to facilitate the Jemmy of Change, in bringing down the iniquitous Westminster Citadel, I will back it.

Apart from the odd 'single issue' independent (hospital closure - sleaze) I see no way for an independent to beat the party machine and the 'ROSETTE VOTE' beloved of the Minster Monster.

I long to be wrong.

any change in eygpt would be signalled by big money flows to safe havens?

Lords

people with no electorate to pacify can be more 'awkward' than those with people to 'answer to'. so the lords can be more braindead naked interest tribal than those who have to answer to the public because they can't be 'sacked'? So the false idea that an elected chamber will be more stropy than an unelected one doesn't follow. Indeed look how docile the commons is?

How wrong to long to be wrong when it`s right to stand and fight to right wrongs!

lols @ #46/#47 :O

;D

----------

#49 WJ:
"Stop thinking of Britain as an autonomous nation ...and view us just another state of the USA ....and the USE (Europe)....and you will have a more accurate working concept with which to understand what is happening to us.

Westminster and all the 成人论坛 twitter about British politics is simply clouding the issue....and it`s why nothing makes sense to us."

see, many of us disagree with you, and we find your characterisation of Britain pretty insulting. Its also pretty defeatist. Why would you post such a depressing idea, "worcesterjim"? We Brits think we can change things. Where are you from, again?

#51 Barry: a "multi-member constituency". At the moment, every constituency only elects one person. In a multi-member constituency, the area is larger, but the area elects several MPs. This makes it more likely you will have an MP to represent you who is the same party that you voted for.

the return to Parliament more closely follows the actual voting of the electorate.

strong party list:

tim boggins at the local constituency office chooses his best mates to be elected on the Party vote - overridden occasionally by Central Party Diktat for one of *their* favourites, electors can only choose between parties, nor candidates.

weak party list:

tim boggins at the local constituency office chooses his best mates to be elected on the Party vote - overridden occasionally by Central Party Diktat for one of *their* favourites, electors can however choose the lesser-preferred candidates by tim boggins, and return decent MPs worthy of the name.

independents are MPs who stand without Party backing, as Martin Bell did.

#52 jaunty: Whilst it could be that way, it really is actually the opposite. The Lords did sterling work opposing Thatcher, and also during the Bliar years. But they are 'hampered' because being unelected, the Commons has Constitutional rights that they could use to simply close the Lords. If the Lords were fully elected however, and thus legitimised and cannot be dissolved by the Commons, their constitutional authority would match that of the Commons. This would be a very great burden for the lower chamber to handle. :)

so, in essence, the Lords have a power to delay and publicise Bills, but if they annoy the Commons too much the Commons will eject them and elect a new bunch. Once they do that however, the Lords will have far greater powers to curtail this Govt, which this Govt is afraid of.

as was said, its "brinkmanship", Parliament-style. ;)

54

the house of lords is a creature of the norman monarchy apartheid. they work for their own class.

an upper chamber has a different role from the main assembly. as long as the roles are defined there is no constitutional conflict.

if you read lords hansard you will find example after example of these arguments the monarchists have used to delay change which are forever rehearsed lately. they make the same stupid points again and again. If one listened to them one might think there is no state in the world that can ever have a functioning government unless they have a hereditary/appointed upper chamber. which is clearly nonsense.

time for people to let go of their stockholm syndrome with their apartheid role gaming abusers.

#55: not disputing the problems of the Lords, or its history.