The Wednesday Glass Box. What do YOU think of tonight's programme?
Welcome to the Glass Box for Wednesday - the place where you can comment on what you heard on PM, interact with other listeners and get responses from the people who make the programme. We hope this will be a useful tool for you and for us.
Just click on the "comment" link. If you've never commented on the Blog before - don't worry. There's a simple registration process you only have to go through once.
Don't worry either if you didn't catch the whole programme, or were busy doing other things and not giving us your full attention. If there was something that "caught your ear" we want to hear about it.
The Glass Box is named after the booth outside the PM studio where we all discuss the programme at 18.00 every weeknight. We try to be honest and constructive. Sometimes there is criticism, and the criticised get a chance to explain themselves.
And so it should be here. The people who make PM will read the comments posted, and will sometimes respond. Please feel free to post your thoughts. There is a link to previous Glass Boxes on the right.
Also on the right, you'll find lots of other links you might like. The Furrowed Brow for example is the venue where you can start talking about anything serious: The Beach is a fun place, and there are links to Blog entries with photos, audio and links.
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Gosh ! This McTaggart woman is rather excitable !
Don't crash in to Big Ben - but let a mini through :-)
Re the faith schools photo exhibition:
Could you post a snapshot of God on the web site, and ideally get him on the line, just to confirm that this is all worthwhile?
The taxi driver who was accused of rape. It needed more, the story was just left hanging there. .... and now toilets....
The girl had confessed - I needed someone to tell my why she can't be named and shamed?
What is happening to the girl? prison?
All struck me that, although it was interesting to hear about, it may have well been a one liner in a news bulletin.
I may have to "listen again", but it seems that I heard someone from your Foreign Office state that due to poppy production since 2001, Afghanistan was a failed state. Since both opium and cocaine have been staples of the supposedly "enlightened" West for over 2 centuries now, one may well question any obviously upper-class minister should want to say that when pertaining to Britain, or any other drug-using "western" society! Unless it is about the age-old "covering ones' ass". Isn't it all about the law of "supply and demand" and all that good stuff? Wasn't it an Englishman who first proposed this equation?
Re: School Toilets...
I think there may be an easy solution...
Close the Teachers Toilets. Then they would have to use the main school toilets along with the students.
This would create two side effects - the first being the demise of bullying the second being cleaner toilets - as I'm sure teachers wouldn't tolerate the unhygenic mess that most schools toilets end up like at the end of the day.
This listener couldn't find the blog so we offered to post this comment which was emailed...
I didn't catch her name - possibly Kirkbride (?) - but she is an ex-member fo the government.
I think what she was trying to say (before Eddie badgered her into the timeout zone by deliberately misunderstanding her point) was that the media knows where the leak came from for the obvious reason that the media was the recipient of the leaked information, and would not had published it without knowing who it came from. I don't know if the 成人论坛 was on the leaker's list of recipients of the information, but it has been reported that several newspapers got the leak directly, rather than copying the information from a sole recipient's report.
So, "the media" knows where the leak came from, and this pretence of not knowing is patently absurd.
Lloyd Walters
P.S. If I knew where to find it, I would have sent this comment to your "Glass Box".
Great prog! A rare opportunity for me to hear it all the way through and I thought it was lively and well-balanced - though I agree with Jonnie that the taxi-driver story could have been developed further. And Eddie's timing to the bongs seemed fine to me.
Pity everyone kept on talking about toilets. So middle-class, don't you think.
Hope Lloyd (courtesy of Eddie at 6) finds us soon.
I FOUND THE TOILETS AT SCHOOL TO BE A HAVEN FOR HARRASSED PUPILS FROM THE GRASP OF THE SADISTIC PE DEPARTMENT.
IT WAS THE PLACE WHERE I LEARNED THE ART OF FORGING PARENTS SIGNATURES FOR "NO GAMES NOTES". IT ALSO BROUGHT HOME THE RULES OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND. WITHOUT THE COVER OF STEAMY DAMP COATS AND THE GENERAL FOG OF SMOKE, THE TEACHERS MAY WELL HAVE DISCOVERED THE COVERT OPERATIONS GOING ON. BULLIES WILL FIND A TARGET AND A LOCATION TO CAUSE DISTRESS. MAKING TOILETS TOO ACCESSIBLE WILL SADLY HOWEVER INHIBIT THE ENTREPRENURIAL SPIRIT.
I agree with Jonnie too re: the taxi driver. This was a story that wasn't developed to its potential and then jarred against the next item. A real pity.
It was probably "old news" as it has been covered in today's papers but it felt like a first half story stranded in the middle of the lighter (since Marc TNBP doesn't seem to like Fluffy) second half.
It has left me with loads of questions. What is the scale of this problem? (I seem to remember it cropping up before) Is the taxi driver due any compensation from anyone? If not, is that right? What drives someone to make this kind of false allegation? What about the forensic evidence? The wider debate - should some crimes have protection for the identities of all parties until someone has been found guilty of the alleged offence?
Maybe this is one for the furrowed brow...
Simon (6) Brilliant solution. I wonder why it isn't done already?
Enjoyed the programme and felt the balance was good.
Sometimes our laws intended to protect do seem to frustrate natural justice. Presumably those journalists that know who leaked will plead confidentiality, and the girl who cried rape is, I suspect, protected because of her age. I think there has been at least one recent case of a false allegation where the woman was named. Dreadful for the poor man and while rape victims should be protected, false accusers should always be named when the facts become clear. I suppose it's too much to hope that his mortgage company will now give him the chance to remain in his house.
Hi.
I found this on Wikipedia..
It just sums up everything really..
Quote " The term parliamentary cretinism was introduced by Marx. According to Marx, parliamentary cretinism "confines its victims to an imaginary world and robs them of their senses, their recollection, all knowledge of the rude external world." Friedrich Engels wrote that it refers to the belief that a simple majority in one's national legislature has the power to direct the future of the whole world in all matters, and even to delimit historical causality authoritatively. "
Anne P and Simon: While the solution you propose re school toilets might have some merit, from experience of teaching I'd say that it is a non starter. Most teachers are hard pressed to grab a cup of coffee in their break time, and if they couldn't get ready access to a loo without being stopped by yet another pupil who wants to know when their homework needs to be handed in, or one of the many other questions regularly posed to teachers, the teachers would be late to their classes (which does happen sometimes, but for other reasons).
When I was on duty at school, however, I was expected to check the girls toilets, and there would be a male colleague on duty checking the boys toilets as a part of our rounds. However, young people being young people, it's difficult to clamp down on all their less savoury plans.
I think the suggestion of reviving school prefects has merit - schools are large, and to monitor the public areas adequately requires a lot of teacher power. Teachers, however, also need to be able to catch their breath, possibly have a drink (after all, they've been talking throughout their lessons) and go to the loo - these are basic rights for them, too.
Whatever some people may think of teachers in general, most are extremely hard working and committed. And they have the welfare of their pupils at heart, too.
Re: Eddie Mair and the e-mail from LLoyd Walters.
Eddie, There is clearly *not* enough publicity for the blog.
As an elapsed radio producer could I suggest you think of some bright ideas to penetrate thick skulls.
Nice voiced trails from the 'cream of the seventies' may have failed -- perhaps a few sparkly v/overs - flare, enthusiasm, and wit from contemporary colleagues might drum the message home - These current trailers just sound so 'wrong' - even though I'm the generation they are possibly meant for! I hope not though. - sorry.
Along with Karen I'm still surprised at the coverage you offered out to the taxi driver -- but - you asked the right questions and in his position, any publicity is good publicity.
Congratulations on a 'near' perfect miss with Big Ben.
I would like to endorse the comments of Lloyd Walters and say; "didn't Eddie Mair bristle as soon as the media was attributed some responsability". It's called the post Hutton affect!
Actually Graham (15) I rather fear you and Lloyd are part of another phenomenon - hearing things that sound like they fit into your preconceptions about the 成人论坛! ;o) In fact the questioning was straightforward journalism. The guest had ruled out in the interview leaks from the police or Whitehall - with cast iron certainty. Then, she introduced, very belatedly and under pressure, the idea that the media might be to blame. I merely expressed surprise (that this theory hadn't been proferred in any of her earlier answers.) To be clear - had she initially "cleared" the media and the police, or the media and Whitehall, and then implicated Whitehall or the police, the questioning would have been the same! It was based on listening to her answers and following her arguments, rather than any secret desire to stand up for the media.
Jonnie (4) the taxi driver interview was a long production saga which no doubt the editor might pick up here later - but yes on air it probably did sound like you wanted more. And publicising the Blog is a long and subtle process. But there's no accounting for people who "hear" every mention of it but literally NEVER "hear" the address!
re; eddie and the blog. My comment was tongue in cheek, the blog gets almost too much publicity and is so easy to remember. 成人论坛 dot co dot uk, stroke blogs stroke PM.
Now did anyone hear the Melvin Bragg trail during the Today programme :-)
As the risk of seeming sycophantic I'd back Eddie's early-morning explanation on the 'media to blame' thing. I was struck, as he seemed to be, by the way she simply grabbed 'The Media' out of thin air and proffered it as an explanation for these leaks. And the way she had flatly rejected any notion that the leaks originated in Whitehall without even an inquiry, basically following the Blair line.
Perhaps the police, having raised the prospect in the first place, should now open an investigation in the belief that a criminal act may have taken place and follow it to see where it leads? In this regard the 'Cash for Honours' investigation offers some precedent, although that followed a complaint from an MP, rather than the police spontaneously kicking it off on their own. Blair certainly seemed to indicate that he thought this was the correct course of action.
Naturally the media will not want to co-operate, 'protecting their sources' and all that good stuff. It's difficult to call. Leaking is an offence, but if the leaker uncovers a greater offence then is it justified? The Katherine Gun affair suggests that it may be so, under certain circumstances.
VT Thinblot;
Which version of God would you like to see? Old Testament, New Testament, J*hw*h, Shiva or some other? It couldn't be Allah, because images of him are forbidden by the Qu'ran, so your suggestion amounts to religious discrimination. Expect a knock on the door any time soon.
I missed the second half, sadly. So didn't hear the piece about the taxi driver, which a few have commented on.
I still don't understand why we can't instigate a method of regulating and buying up the opium crop from Afghanistan, in conjunction with other countries. If the Turks did it then there is a model to follow. The ambassador made no convincing argument to me. There is a shortage of medical diamorphine in the West, we need it in our hospitals. Even if we take 10%, 25%, 50% of production and stop it reaching the streets that has to make a difference, doesn't it?
Catriona;
No need to shout!
You may be unaware that by convention, using capitals in a web discussion is the way that the correspondent indicates that they are shouting at the top of their voice. Please locate the Caps Lock key on your keyboard.
Si.
Simon (18) To be kind to Catriona, it is possible that she has problems with her sight, and capitals are easier for her to see when she types. ;o)
Thanks for the comments. We did try to dress up the false rape story better. Initially he had agreed to do a considered studio quality interview but he got beseiged by other media outlets so we ended getting him late and rather throwing it on air. We are legally obliged to protect the identity of all alleged rape victims. We should have made that clear.
Another interesting email about the programme. I've replied to the writer that I'm posting this in the Glass Box.
"On PM tonight there was a report concerning an Exhibition of Photographs taken by young people of different religious beliefs. Although four different religions were mentioned the only student's comments broadcast were those of an Hindu, a Jew and a Moslem. Why wasn't a Christian young person also allowed to express their opinion? The only reference to Christianity was frivolous - a cat wearing a crucifix. This is yet another example of the media marginalizing the Christian faith. There are millions of practising Christians in this country and their feelings and opinions are just as valid as those of other faiths.
I also wish to express on behalf of myself and other members of the church in Eastham, our concern about the absence of programmes during Holy Week relating to the Christian message. The media by ignoring such an important week in the Christian Calendar is denying its importance and the spiritual and cultural needs of this nation.
Yours faithfully
Mrs V. Bonnard"
Re Eddie:- Well you have published Mrs Bonnards letter but you haven't made any comment, or have I missed something?
I will say that during Holy week I caught a number of programmes to do with faith and christianity on Radio 4 - perhaps Mrs Bonard was tuning in at the wrong time?
Here is a list of some 'listen agains'
/religion/programmes/sunday/archive/index.shtml
GILLIAN - IT DOES MAKE IT EASIER TO SEE THOUGH ;-0
Jonnie (22) - I reply if I think I can help! I've emailed the reporter who did the item...
oh and most of the PM production team read the Glass Box...and they're expected to contribute if they can shed light on things...
I missed the show, but I would like to add that perhaps we Pagans could say that we are often marginalised too....but then we aren't a religion so I guess that answered my own question. However, as an alternative 'faith' or spiritual practise it is very often negelected/non represnted or presented in a trivial 'look at those daft hippies at Stonehenge' kind of way.
I'd like to say to Mrs Bonnard - why does it matter what others say, or don't say, of your faith? Its had a lot more press than many others and surely its time to let the others have a shot? Its not an attack. I dare say most of us are far more aware of Christian traditions, messages and festivials. Pieces like that on PM serve to widen our knowledge and experience and also foster understanding.
I'm going to run and hide now.
Religious Debate:
Qualifying Statement: I'm a crazy agnostic.
Comment: I think Mrs Bonnard's comment is more to do with a growing feeling of the christian faith being pushed aside in the media (particularly the 成人论坛 my moles tell me), in favour of highlighting the Islamic faith. Had the PM piece been a singular event, then she probably would not have written in, but coming on the heels of a series of programmes/articles/pieces/debates over the last few years which are specifically about the role of Islam in the UK, then this is probably an example of last-straw-syndrome.
I'm not judging the rights or wrongs of this nor saying that the pushed aside feeling is correct or incorrect, but I do think that letter was less about the particular article and more about the representation of religion as a whole.
I suspect I have just held the can-opener for the imminent invasion of worms.
Apologies Eddie - I misread your comment at the top of Mrs Bonnards e-mail.
I thought you meant you were *replying* to her e-mail on the blog rather than merely publishing it.
Personally I'm with witchiwoman on this.
Interesting stuff here - I guess the Glass Box is where to come if you miss most of the show and don't want to "listen again". I did hear the interview with the victim of the false rape charge. I accept all of the comments already posted and yet have to say that I found the piece quite powerful as it was. It suddenly occurs to me that it was a bit like a news item equivalent of a "short story" - it left you moved but wanting so much more. The bottom line was that I found myself driving along, desperately sorry for the guy and feeling an odd sense of powerlessness for him, myself and society at large. Of course, a part of me wants to know that the woman who made the claim will be made to pay for it, and yet I can't help thinking that she will have her own story and whilst there is no justification for what she did to the taxi driver she made the claim against, it will turn out that he is an innocent in a more complicated story.
Re the religious debate - not a great deal to say, really, but also tend to agree with witchiwoman. However, I do like this .
Do the weather presenters always have to be so incredibly grateful to be asked to speak on air?
Well (30), they bloody should do.
(31) No doubt, but you should force them to suppress it.
Dear Mr Mair,
The crazy agnostic is a very perceptive person and understood that my comment does derive from the feeling that Christianity is being pushed aside but not specifically by Islam or the media. The new "cult of political correctness" has lead to the banning of nativity scenes and an acknowledgement of Christmas in some Cities and towns in our country for fear of offending Moslems, Hindus and those of other faiths or non faiths. Whereas in actual fact these faith groups do not find such evidence of Christianity offensive at all. The event that really awakened this rather run of the mill, ordinary Christian was the extemely offensive poster a few years ago at Christmas which advertized the Channel 4 programme Dead Ringers. It depicted a spoff on the painting of the Last Supper with Jesus sprawled across the table drunk and holding a spliff. I felt that even if the makers of that programme did not believe that Jesus was the Son of God they should at least repect him because he was a man who was prepared to die for his beliefs and whose teachings of love to all men, which if followed, would make this world a far better place for all of us to live in. I also appreciate that the other great faiths of this world preach similar messages.
I was referring to the lack of coverage on the TV when I commented on the lack of coverage during Holy Week. We used to appreciate the 15 minute programmes that were transmitted by the 成人论坛 during Holy week and would find similar programmes enlightening if they related to other religious festivals such as Ramadam and Hanukka( don't think I spelt that correctly sorry)etc.
Yours faithfully
V.Bonnard
CATRIONA,
YOU CAN MAKE THE TEXT LARGER BY PRESSING
Ctrl and + (PLUS) at the same time,
AND AGAIN IF YOU WISH.
Ctrl and - (MINUS)
will make the type SMALLER.
ENJOY!
XX
ED
Eddie and production team, and especially Marc,
The Glass box is developing a real and useful identity. Congratulations on the initiative.
Yours, Aye
ed
V Bonnard (33),
Thank you for putting it so well.
I too, "would find similar programmes enlightening if they related to other religious festivals such as Ramadam and Hanukka"
And there are many of such programmes on the 成人论坛, and long may it remain the case. I have no real opinion as to whether Christian subjects are being short-changed, but I understand the perception.
I seem to have turned into a Trans-Christian, in that I have rejected very little of the Christian message, and have taken a lot on board from most of those you list, and others as well.
鐭 鑰 涓 瑷銆 瑷 鑰 涓 鐭ャ
(Those who know don't talk,
Those who talk don't know.)
ed
26/04/2007 at 14:16:31 GMT
-- Lao Tsu, ~400BCE
Ed, aren't you forgetting those who post three times in succession. But then what do I know?
Re the inter-faith photography exhibition: this was not an example of anti-Christian bias.
I simply conducted interviews with those present. By 5pm, there were Muslims, Jews and Hindus at the opening of the exhibition... so I interviewed a Muslim, a Jew and a Hindu. Christian and Sikh participants in the project may well have arrived later, but not in time for the broadcast.
Having previously worked for Radio 4's Sunday programme (www.bbc.co.uk/sunday) I suspect that well over half my contributions to Radio 4's output over the last three years have involved Christianity in some form...
I feel that religion is bad for ones health.
I don't have time to expand.
tony (37),
;-)
I've always loved that bit of Lao Tzu, and take it very personally. How dare He?
I constantly notice that the people who tend to complain about obvious evidence of Christian faith, and say that it is offensive to those of other faiths, almost never hold the faiths for which they claim to speak. They seem to be people who dislike Christianity for whatever reason of their own, but don't care much for any other religion either. Perhaps I have been lucky, but all the truly religious people I have known (I ought to say "those whom I regard as properly religious", which includes a devout Pagan or two! ) have had respect for other genuinely religious people of any and every faith, and have not objected to displays of faith.
On the other hand, I don't feel confident that fundamentalists of any religion who preach the doctrine of "hate everyone who doesn't believe exactly what we do" come into my definition of "genuinely religious", because all the religions I know about had founders who preached love rather than hatred.
Mr Fish,
Well said that man!
ed
26/04/2007 at 18:16:08 GMT
Re; Mrs Bonnard, -
This is just to get things factually correct but I believe the Dead Ringers programme and the poster will have been 成人论坛 material as opposed to Channel 4.
Chinese province 'may sue Mattel'
Mattel admitted that 85% of the recall was due to design flaws
China's Guangdong province is likely to join a planned libel suit against the US toy giant Mattel, according to the China Daily.
Mattel recalled more than 21 million Chinese-made toys this summer, but later said that 85% of the recall was due to its own design faults.
Remember our interview Eddie.??